F1 2007/2008 Winter Testing and Rumours

rpstewart said:
That's not my understanding. Everything I've seen and read suggests that McLaren were lagging well behind Williams and Benetton (and to a lesser extent Ferrari) when it came to electronic widgets. I'm not aware of them running ABS at any point, they were the last major team to go to a paddle shift gearbox and only ran a fully active car in 1993.
Click to expand...

Exactly, its also the reason Senna started to look elsewhere.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Exactly, its also the reason Senna started to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Williams in 1992/3 were about 1s-2s/lap faster than the nearest competitor (who I think were McLaren at the time). Senna offered to drive for free, for Williams as he was so intent on winning at any cost. To win meant being in the best car. He would ditch McLaren in a heartbeat if it meant winning the title again; something he eventually did in 1994. (Had Alonso done something similar this year, I'm sure people would brand him some sort of anti-christ. Of course, Senna does it and its all fine).

This doesnt detract from the fact that McLaren were using a very advanced car (electronically). I think the only thing they didnt have was ABS, which Williams had in 1993. McLaren were believed to be taking a different direction with their electronics, which never really paid off. Williams put everything into their active suspension system, which they tested throughout 1991, to speed up development of their 1992 car. This paid off big time in 1992. In 1993 they introduced their new ABS breaking system, which allowed them to dominate in 1993. From what I recall all the teams during this period were using traction control and McLarens was the most advanced. This wouldve been in around 15yrs ago.

Which race am I talking about with Alesi and MS? All I remember, is they both had the same tyres and MS was coming from behind and Martin Brundle kept saying, "MS is being a lot more creative with his driving lines than Alesi. If Alesi isnt more creative, MS will catch and pass him very soon." I cant remember the year or the race. And from what I recall, MS and Alesi were both on the same tyres leaving everybody else behind.
 
sunama said:
Alesi was the original rain master, but he got owned later on, in the wet, by MS. I remember a race, where it was pouring with rain (I cant remember which track it was on or what year), but Alesi was in front, and MS just caught, passed and pulled away from Alesi. From that point onwards we knew that MS was the master in all conditions.

Of course, a drivers true skill is shown up most in the wet, which tends to level the performance of the cars. When Hamilton won that race in the wet conditions, that was when I acknowledged that Hamilton really was "that" good.
Click to expand...

I think Senna was rather useful in the wet and he was racing long before Alesi turned a wheel in F1.

The '93 McLaren was pretty advanced, IIRC it even had a laser two communication/control system the fired and received a burst of data as the car passed the pits. One of Sennas main issues with the team/car was that it was using customer engines and at the very least he wanted engines of equal status to the factory Benetton units.

The '94 Renault was very skittish at the start of the season, as the aerodynamics were highly pitch sensitive. This wasn't a problem when the cars ran active, but on the passive '94 cars this meant using very stiff suspension.
 
Ahh, glad I strayed to this section of the forums.

My 'Lewis Hamilton - My Story' book should be here tomorrow. Can't wait to read it. I'm a bitty annoyed that he lost the championship, but I love Kimi aswell, so I wasn't that down about it. As long as Alonso didn't win ;D

I have a feeling Alonso is off back to Renault. Wouldn't mind seeing Heikki in a McLaren seat tbh.

Anyone else planning a Silverstone trip next year?

\o/
 
.Sean said:
Anyone else planning a Silverstone trip next year?

\o/
Click to expand...

Ive got my grandstand seats and travelodge booked for next years event. If there is an OcUK meetup id be up for meeting some of you guys and gals.
 
Last edited:
sunama said:
This doesnt detract from the fact that McLaren were using a very advanced car (electronically). I think the only thing they didnt have was ABS, which Williams had in 1993. McLaren were believed to be taking a different direction with their electronics, which never really paid off. Williams put everything into their active suspension system, which they tested throughout 1991, to speed up development of their 1992 car. This paid off big time in 1992. In 1993 they introduced their new ABS breaking system, which allowed them to dominate in 1993. From what I recall all the teams during this period were using traction control and McLarens was the most advanced. This wouldve been in around 15yrs ago.
Click to expand...
I'll stand corrected on the TC - I have to rely on my increasingly iffy memory in the office whereas I can fall back on a pile of Autocourses at home.
 
sunama said:
I cant remember the year or the race. And from what I recall, MS and Alesi were both on the same tyres leaving everybody else behind.
Click to expand...

It wasn't about the tyres it was suspension and wing settings. MS gambled on a full wet set up Alesi was on an inter setting. It was the Spanish GP in 96.

MS
Alesi
Villeneuve

MS was using a completely different line to the rest of the grid. It was great gamble by MS but one he could afford to take as he was never in the hunt.
 
Damn. Us old folk talking about grand prix 10-15yrs ago. Im sure most people reading these stories are thinking, "What the hell are these guys talking about? - Williams 1s-2s faster per lap, surely not."

:D

I'm surprised that Alonso hasnt been blamed in some way for Renault's new allegations. It would be amusing if he does return to Renault - drove a car in 2007 that might have some tech from Ferrari, will drive a Renault in 2008, which might have some McLaren tech. We shall see what they do to Renault and if it really is one rule for McLaren and one rule for the rest.

Oh and yes, Senna was fantastic in the wet. I believe he made a name for himself in a Toleman, in the wet, at Monaco. I believe he was gaining on Prost but ran out of laps when they terminated the race prematurely on safety grounds. I actually didnt see this grand prix as it was before my time,
 
One of the missing pieces in the line up jigsaw may be dropping into place - Toyota have lodged a what is believed to be a race drive contract for Timo Glock with the F1 Contracts Recognition Board. Timo is under contract with BMW Sauber although only as a test driver but with the option to race for others. The CRB is going to have to rule on the validity of both contracts due to some conflicts, believed to be down to who he has a contract with a couple of years down the line.
 
frakker said:
That might not be the case!

Alonso's manager met with Mateschitz and Bergher. Apparently, it's possible Bourdais could be asked to spend another season in Champ Car and Coulthard would be moved down to Torro Rosso, all for Alonso.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071108105015.shtml
Click to expand...

That would be harsh on Crazy Dave. :( Though I suppose it would be better to be clear of Alonso's hissy fits. I doubt Webber would be all that keen spending yet another season in the shadows of a more illustrious team mate.

Regardless of where Alonso goes (Renault most likely? But Red Bull more interesting) it might push BMW out of their 3rd place 'comfort zone' and make that last step to join Ferrari and McLaren at the top table. After all Ferdy can drive and he'll push the fourth or fifth placed team up a notch or two just by sitting behind the wheel.
 
Lunatic Dreyfus said:
That would be harsh on Crazy Dave. :( Though I suppose it would be better to be clear of Alonso's hissy fits. I doubt Webber would be all that keen spending yet another season in the shadows of a more illustrious team mate.

Regardless of where Alonso goes (Renault most likely? But Red Bull more interesting) it might push BMW out of their 3rd place 'comfort zone' and make that last step to join Ferrari and McLaren at the top table. After all Ferdy can drive and he'll push the fourth or fifth placed team up a notch or two just by sitting behind the wheel.
Click to expand...

You are assuming of course that Red Bull will provide a car that can finish races.

In other news, Renault have made a statement about Spy Saga 2

Following the notification of the FIA for the ING Renault F1 Team representatives to appear in front of the World Council, the team wishes to clarify the situation.

On the 6th September 2007 it came to our attention that an engineer (Mr Phil Mackereth) who joined the team from McLaren in Sept 2006 had brought with him some information that was considered to be proprietary to McLaren. This information was contained on old style floppy discs and included copies of some McLaren engineering drawings and some technical spreadsheets.

This information was loaded at the request of Mr Mackereth onto his personal directory on the Renault F1 Team file system. This was done without the knowledge of anyone in authority in the team. As soon as the situation was brought to the attention of the team's technical management, the following actions were taken:

The information was completely cleansed from the team's computer systems and a formal investigation was started. We promptly informed McLaren of the situation and immediately after the FIA.

Since then we have constantly and regularly kept McLaren and the FIA informed on all relevant findings.

Mr Mackereth was immediately suspended from his position. The original floppy discs were impounded and sent to our solicitors for return to McLaren.

Our formal investigation showed that early in his employment with Renault Mr Mackereth made some of our engineers aware of parts of this information in the form of a few reduced scale engineering drawings. These drawings covered four basic systems as used by McLaren and were: the internal layout of the fuel tank, the basic layout of the gear clusters, a tuned mass damper and a suspension damper.

Subsequent witness statements from the engineers involved have categorically stated that having been briefly shown these drawings, none of this information was used to influence design decisions relating to the Renault car. In the particular case of the tuned mass damper, these had already been deemed illegal by the FIA and therefore the drawing was of no value.

The suspension damper drawing hinted that the McLaren design might be similarly considered illegal and a subsequent clarification from the FIA confirmed this based upon our crude interpretation of the concept.

ING Renault F1 Team have co-operated fully with McLaren and the FIA in this matter to the extent that the team has invited McLaren's independent experts to come and assess the team's computer systems and inspect the cars and the design records, to demonstrate that this unfortunate incident has not in anyway influenced the design of the cars.

ING Renault F1 Team have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA, being proactive in solving this matter and we are fully confident in the judgment of the World Council.
Click to expand...
 
Stormrider said:
You are assuming of course that Red Bull will provide a car that can finish races.
Click to expand...

Now that is CRUEL!!!

There are people who work for RedBull who work hard only for them to be so inept that they are unable to produce a car that can complete a single grand prix.
 
sunama said:
Now that is CRUEL!!!

There are people who work for RedBull who work hard only for them to be so inept that they are unable to produce a car that can complete a single grand prix.
Click to expand...

Yes it is cruel, but considering Webber's plight this season it seemed apt.

Everyone in F1 works hard to compete, but sometimes the smallest things can ruin a weekend.

A lot of my mates have left Honda and gone to work for Red Bull so you maybe closer to the truth than you think
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of Newey has moved from McLaren to Red Bull, and so has the unreliability. Newey is renowned for how how tight he packages a car - yes its fast, but it still needs to reach the end of a race.
 
Neo4 said:
A lot of my mates have left Honda and gone to work for Red Bull so you maybe closer to the truth than you think:D
Click to expand...

Duke said:
Yeah the crappy ones left who gave Honda that "car" last season ;)
Click to expand...

Honda would almost certainly have wanted a lot of the F1 employees who were responsible for producing Honda's 2007 car, go. There must've been some seriously p'd off people at Honda, bearing in mind that they invested so much money into the F1 program.

This does not bode well for any driver coming in to Red Bull, considering their reliability record in 2007 was not the best. Alonso could arrive and make RBR more competitive, but I doubt he could have any effect on the reliability of the car, unless they decide to run conservative settings (say on the engine) and expect Alonso to make up for the lack of speed that this would result in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom