The Holy Quran.

Some of the verses in the text speak only in doing the right things. People back then, before Islam where very bad people. eg they who had girls as their first born or too much girls used to bury them alive to protect the family name (as girls used to be raped and pregnated hence making the girl bad etc) Islam came to stop that.
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That's the air of religious superiorty showing it's head again. "We're better than you, so you now have to follow our laws"

Are you saying 3000 years ago every single person was a morally corrupt savage? What about in other countries? Some perhaps (cannibals, those who sacrifice humans etc)

But I find the slaughtering of goats in Islam barbaric and backward. There is no need for it. Yes I'm a meat eater btw. Kill the goat (for food) but certainly not for sacrifice.
 
Abz said:
Where is your proof that the prophet was a paedophile !!!
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I may be wrong but isn't it considered wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl? Although perhaps you could correct me as to the age of Aisha when the 'marriage' was consummated!

Abz said:
Looking at your website you need help:p
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That's a bizarre thing to say as there's nothing on my website apart from my phones ring tone. :confused:
 
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Azagoth said:
I may be wrong but isn't it considered wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl? Although perhaps you could correct me as to the age of Aisha when the 'marriage' was consummated!
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In Islam back in the day men where allowed to get married to girls over 9. Depending if the girl is mature enough to get married.

I tell you why:

Some families where forced to have thier girls married to protect them. As girls used to get kiddnapped, rapped and inpregnated then left in the streets.

In term of Ashia, some books say the prophet got married to her while she was six, some say 9 and some say 16 (google it).

I cant tell you if the prophet has sex with her as soon as he got married to her, this I dont know. But as far as I know she was over the age of 9.

Before he got married to her she was engaged to a non muslim and a bad person to be exact. So marrying her could have been to protect her. The prophet have 4 wives at a time, and some died.

If this is a negitive to you... look at his poitives, which are 100x more
 
badbob said:
But I find the slaughtering of goats in Islam barbaric and backward. There is no need for it. Yes I'm a meat eater btw. Kill the goat (for food) but certainly not for sacrifice.
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We dont sacrofic goats :rolleyes: what you think this is

If we sacrofic anything its in the name of Allah then we eat it.

am going out now, so will post later
 
I quite like the (overlooked) example in this thread of somebody entirely cut off from contact with the rest of our species for the entirety of their life.


Say 5 of them are born on a totally remote island (its not going to happen i know but its an interesting scenario) they NEVER meet anybody else from the human race and they do not procreate.

They all live to they are about 45 or so (no medicine etc) and not one of them ever wonders about a higher power, they all die never having even considered the possibility of God ergo, Allah or Jesus or anyone else like that. They of course have therefore never prayed or admitted the existence.

However all 5 live the most pious lives imaginable, they all hug for 25 minutes a day out of pure love for their fellow man (remember no procreation here!! :o) they never feel even ill will towards one of the other 4. They are by all rights the pefect example of how religion supposedly tells us to live.

Are they damned? Is ignorance allowed? Or do they get a last minute "chance" to wise upto God when they die and only if they so "ohhh right, so you made all that down there then" do they get entrance into Heaven or whatever"?

Surely the only people who are eligable for all the benefits religions promise are those that are aware of the religion in the first place? Thus making the whole concept moot in one neat swoop?
 
A few religions work on the idea of good person in life regardless of choice can get into paradise. Some don't, lots of branches of Christianity for instance.
 
I really dont believe any of the religious stuff, since i believe in evolution. Due to the proof all around us. My wifes family is very religious and they've tried to turn me from the dark side, but failed. As have a christian guy at work and a muslim guy, whos also a preacher.

Anyways my point is, even though i think its all nonsence, there are some good stories and events told about the ancient world in the bible and the quran. Wether they are made up ? who knows but, it is interesting all the same.
 
Abz said:
Almost lol

You must admints Gods existance and his prophets. You must have have faith

Why do we prey 5 times a day. All we say when we prey is read small verses from the Quran.

Call me crazy but your life is a gift from Allah and life is but a test. When you are faithful you wil be gifted heavly when you die.
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But wait, what if I still lived in my forest, hidden from society? God put me here. I was born here. But how am I to know that I am to have faith? That's a bit unfair.
 
manic_man said:
I quite like the (overlooked) example in this thread of somebody entirely cut off from contact with the rest of our species for the entirety of their life.


Say 5 of them are born on a totally remote island (its not going to happen i know but its an interesting scenario) they NEVER meet anybody else from the human race and they do not procreate.

They all live to they are about 45 or so (no medicine etc) and not one of them ever wonders about a higher power, they all die never having even considered the possibility of God ergo, Allah or Jesus or anyone else like that. They of course have therefore never prayed or admitted the existence.

However all 5 live the most pious lives imaginable, they all hug for 25 minutes a day out of pure love for their fellow man (remember no procreation here!! :o) they never feel even ill will towards one of the other 4. They are by all rights the pefect example of how religion supposedly tells us to live.

Are they damned? Is ignorance allowed? Or do they get a last minute "chance" to wise upto God when they die and only if they so "ohhh right, so you made all that down there then" do they get entrance into Heaven or whatever"?

Surely the only people who are eligable for all the benefits religions promise are those that are aware of the religion in the first place? Thus making the whole concept moot in one neat swoop?
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Thanks dude. It's an argument I've been thinking about that surely puts a strange perspective on things. How can a "God" punish them for something they've never been able to find out about? To me it merely reinforces my view that all religion is based upon fictional tales designed to control (edit: actually, make that "influence") society.
 
Nickg said:
yes Genocide, a particular favourite moral of religion, we have somewhat changed our views these days... one would hope? again totally against the will of religious teachings.. which actively advocate genocide against those who do not believe in the said religion...
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That's merely down to interpretation.

"It is interesting to note that British observers of Omani rule in East Africa commented that Ibadis are the least fanatic and sectarian of all Muslims, and openly associate with people of all faiths and pray together with Sunni Muslims. Hostile action is reserved for one type of person: the unjust ruler who refuses to mend his ways or relinquish his power"

Wouldn't it have been great if their particular more tolerant brand of Islam had achieved dominant status.
 
mks2005 said:
Thanks dude. It's an argument I've been thinking about that surely puts a strange perspective on things. How can a "God" punish them for something they've never been able to find out about? To me it merely reinforces my view that all religion is based upon fictional tales designed to control (edit: actually, make that "influence") society.
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Could also ask what happens to babies that die before they can even comprehend god? Heaven or hell?
 
Interesting isnt it, only under the influence of other members of our species (past and present) does the concept of "God" even come to light.

Although i suppose the religious argument could be that those on the deserted island may recieve the divine word of God directly as per the distinctive personalities in current religious texts therefore they would probably start their own religion in a similar light towhat currently exists.

No way to prove or disprove the theory as such an isolated being would be instantly tainted by those of us wanting the answer seeking them out.

You have to admit though... religous texts do very neatly provide restrictions on some of mankinds most destructive qualities, over population, murder etc Now whether they were placed by a creator in order to counteract these design flaws or whether they have slowly been put into place over the last few thousand years by the ruling class trying to find an easy way to control the masses, is another area of debate.

Personally I er on the side of them being manmade abstractions of stories told to them by other men. You only have to look at how mothers point to store managers etc and say "if you dont behave that man is going to be very angry" to see how fear of reprise by someone seemingly more powerful than ourselves is a very good contgrolling measure and one so easily applied.
 
More arbitrary rules! People actually think god said "you have to believe in me, unless you're under 10" ?
 
Azagoth said:
I may be wrong but isn't it considered wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl? Although perhaps you could correct me as to the age of Aisha when the 'marriage' was consummated!
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but think about this.... back then, people's life expectancies were much less than today, so people would get married at very early ages. also, you are infering (IMO) he is a peado, but that would be by an English 2007 view.

IF you were living in japan, they are open about all of this, and have pinups of little girls...what i am trying to say is, in different cultures, different things have different repercussions and meanings. some societies canibalise, but others dont, who is to say who is right or wrong. just to follow what you believe and respect the laws of the land. if the place you are in makes it illegal, it wont be done, but if it is legal, then there is nothing preventing you to do it.
 
Eriedor said:
Could also ask what happens to babies that die before they can even comprehend god? Heaven or hell?
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Babies are sin free, and therefore, die sin free, and go to heaven. Infact before a child comes into puberty and sins he/she could have done are on the parents, so if he/she dies, they go to heaven aswell.

In the case of the island people, IMHO, we cannot predict what god will decide, only what he has promised. In the end the decision is up to god. I cannot say whether they will go to hell or heaven, but if they remain sinless like babies, then i presume *IMO* they they would go to heaven.
 
shaffaaf27 said:
Babies are sin free, and therefore, die sin free, and go to heaven. Infact before a child comes into puberty and sins he/she could have done are on the parents, so if he/she dies, they go to heaven aswell.

In the case of the island people, IMHO, we cannot predict what god will decide, only what he has promised. In the end the decision is up to god. I cannot say whether they will go to hell or heaven, but if they remain sinless like babies, then i presume *IMO* they they would go to heaven.
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free of original sin, which is transferred to descendant via descendant via the semen which fertilised the egg? i think not, hence why catholics get thier children baptised pronto speed!
 
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