US shoppers killed in gun rampage

...

You idiot. Absolute idiot.

lol, what a pathetic come-back!
You have just made yourself look like a complete tool !
If people want too target shoot then I have no problem with that what-so ever, they can simply get themselves a nice air-rifle and blow targets to pieces all day long for all I care....
Wait..... it's not the same, not got the power and bang real guns have???? Sorry but I certainly don't want someone with that mindset owning a 'REAL' gun as they clearly have power and control issues that need addressing!!

As I have said guns are not coming back too the U.K so either get over it and stop crying like a little baby or move to a country where you can buy the most powerful, efficient and concealable killing device you desire :rolleyes:
 
lol, what a pathetic come-back!
You have just made yourself look like a complete tool !

You haven't exactly covered yourself in glory in this thread either...

If people want too target shoot then I have no problem with that what-so ever, they can simply get themselves a nice air-rifle and blow targets to pieces all day long for all I care....
Wait..... it's not the same, not got the power and bang real guns have????

It is more the fact that it is a completely different skill set. An air rifle doesn't fire in the same way and the forces are completely different.

Sorry but I certainly don't want someone with that mindset owning a 'REAL' gun as they clearly have power and control issues that need addressing!!

Alternatively, you could just like target shooting? Or does everyone that uses a gun have mental problems? That is an awful lot of nutters in the olympics then...

As I have said guns are not coming back too the U.K so either get over it and stop crying like a little baby or move to a country where you can buy the most powerful, efficient and concealable killing device you desire :rolleyes:

A few points here.

The school shooting we are talking about here didn't even happen in this country.

Guns are in the UK and plenty of people enjoy using them. You can get a licence and buy very powerful firearms in the UK and the UK gun clubs are quite popular. The only thing you can't get are hand guns.

Criminals seem to have absolutely no problems getting hold of handguns, so restricting their legallity seems to have had little impact on gun crime.

Finally, everyone should really cool it a bit in this thread as personal insults are against the forum rules.
 
Criminals seem to have absolutely no problems getting hold of handguns, so restricting their legallity seems to have had little impact on gun crime.
.

That's rather specious reasoning. Logic would suggest that legalising guns would make it easier to get hold of them not the same or harder thereby, in all likelyhood, adding fuel to the fire.

You've decided that rising levels of gun crime are an adequate justification for the theory that gun control has not hindered gun related crime. This is a very hollow argument RDM. Logic suggests that it is far more likely that we would be in a worse-off situation had guns been even more readily available..
 
Last edited:
look, this is silly, just look at the statistics of a country/s that have guns heavily legislated and compare that to a country that doesn't, this shouldn't even need to be debated, it's just common sense that good gun legislation saves lives, if anyone thinks that if the UK had the same gun laws as the USA and our gun crime wouldn't go up expediently as a result then they are plain stupid.
 
That's rather specious reasoning. Logic would suggest that legalising guns would make it easier to get hold of them not the same or harder thereby, in all likelyhood, adding fuel to the fire.

Hard to tell really, you would need numbers on how many crimes where commited using legal firearms prior to the ban on handguns. The very few gun owners in the UK compared to the size of the population would suggest that they were not a really good source for crime.

You've decided that rising levels of gun crime are an adequate justification for the theory that gun control has not hindered gun related crime.

I haven't really decided anything yet, not really done much research in to it to be honest. However guns are already relatively easy to get hold of regardless of their legal status. When some 14 year old black kid in some sink estate in Nottingham seems to be able to easyily get hold of a gun I would say that their legal status has nothing to do with availability.

This is a very hollow argument RDM. Logic suggests that it is far more likely that we would be in a worse-off situation had guns been even more readily available..

That logic only applies if illegal firearms are hard to get hold of. They don't seem to be all that hard to get hold of, so having a small legal supply available too wouldn't seem to make much difference.

What is for certain is that making handguns illegal has not solved the illegal handgun problem in the UK.
 
look, this is silly, just look at the statistics of a country/s that have guns heavily legislated and compare that to a country that doesn't, this shouldn't even need to be debated, it's just common sense that good gun legislation saves lives, if anyone thinks that if the UK had the same gun laws as the USA and our gun crime wouldn't go up expediently as a result then they are plain stupid.

This "common sense" argument however falls down when you compare the US vs Canada for example. Both countries with relatively lax firearms controls but widely different gun crime levels.
 
As I have said to many friends until they ban or heavily restrict gun ownership then this will continue to happen in America. Just different body counts and locations :(

Sad day, RIP victims, your country failed you!

Wow! Using a tragedy to make a cheap political point in aid of stripping people of their right to arms. Classy.
 
You've danced around my point completely. Those are simply examples of things where the intended use is not being exercised - instead something criminal is.

Gun's are created for a purpose, and used for that purpose. They're used for a purpose which I've already highlighted and which I'm sure you, and everyone else here, knows. Unless you actually believed the Simpsons where Homer was using the gun to turn off lights/change the television channel.

As for my statement - I was making an assumpting based on your words. A fair assumption to be honest. And a hint for the future, making stupid remarks during a debate only makes you look stupid.

That's neither here nor there Sir.

The fact remains that the majority of American firearm owners -as with motorists- use their tools in a responsible manner (whether it be recreation, target-shooting, self-defence, etc). It's the extremely tiny minority of people who abuse them.

To "prevent" this type of crime by punishing law abiding gun owners, and robbing them of their rights and private property doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Imagine, for sake of argument, that we have a small town with a "Boy Racer" problem. At night, young men race each and other at 90MPH on a 25MPH road. These races endanger life and property. Your solution to this crime Sir is to lower the speed limit from 25MPH to 20MPH. That's gun control.

Furthermore, you would be incorrect in stating that all guns are designed to kill. Yes, the first gun was designed to kill, and -indeed- many modern guns are designed to kill. However, many people enjoy target shooting, and, as such, many firearms are actually designed with target shooting in mind.

May I also request that you stop calling a fellow member "stupid"? It does nothing for your argument, and draws you in an unfavorable light.
 
Last edited:
Ah, yet another stereotype.

Not everybody who owns a gun is a "cowboy".

I would say her reality is warped, if she really thinks all gun owners are nut cases, how come you don't see hundreds of murders, by legal gun owners every day?

Much like the arguement Muslims=religious nuts, if they were hundreds of non mulims would be murdered every day in the UK. Yet all it needs is 10 loons to have millions of people demonized.

I guess people think getting on there soapbox and changing something makes themselves feel better, and give them power trips to what they believe is right...when it's just a blinkered viewpoint of reality.

I wonder what would happen if a mental patient got hold of a illegal imported machine gun and went onto a killing spree? You can't blame sane previous owners of guns, nor legal guns..so where to point the finger? Mental patients? Illegal guns? :rolleyes:
 
if she really thinks all gun owners are nut cases, how come you don't see hundreds of murders, by legal gun owners every day?
Sir, this is because gun-owners, as a rule, (there are always exceptions, but just societies do not legislate around or for the benefit of "exceptions") are very responsible people. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, many of the most responsible people will own firearms if permitted by law.

In the US: Most gun owners are strict constitutionalists and libertarians, and you can see this for yourself by simply visiting a firearms message board, or visiting a rifle/pistol range in the States. Great folks they are.

Here in the UK: Firearms owners have to be pillars of the community, otherwise, they will not be allowed to hold a firearms certificate. As a member of a target-shooting club, some of the finest people I have met are members of that club.

The same goes for Switzerland, Canada, and much of the rest of the western world.

Much like the arguement Muslims=religious nuts, if they were hundreds of non mulims would be murdered every day in the UK. Yet all it needs is 10 loons to have millions of people demonized.
That is exactly right. One can't simply tar a whole body of people with the same brush. Likewise, it would be a gross breach of our general notions of decency and morality to deprive civil and law-abiding individuals of their legally acquired arms. Perhaps now would be the time to explore the origins of gun-control. The first gun-control legislation proposed in the US was aimed at barring black people from the right to keep and bear arms. Gun control has never been about guns, it has always been about control, and, as a policy, it clearly has racist roots.

I guess people think getting on there soapbox and changing something makes themselves feel better, and give them power trips to what they believe is right...when it's just a blinkered viewpoint of reality.
Also true. It's "sexy" to change the world. However, the more one tries to change the world, the more they end up playing into the hands of the politically motivated elites who wish to impose their views upon the citizenry from on-high. The same goes for enviromentalists.
 
Last edited:
lol, what a pathetic come-back!
You have just made yourself look like a complete tool !
If people want too target shoot then I have no problem with that what-so ever, they can simply get themselves a nice air-rifle and blow targets to pieces all day long for all I care....
Wait..... it's not the same, not got the power and bang real guns have???? Sorry but I certainly don't want someone with that mindset owning a 'REAL' gun as they clearly have power and control issues that need addressing!!

As I have said guns are not coming back too the U.K so either get over it and stop crying like a little baby or move to a country where you can buy the most powerful, efficient and concealable killing device you desire :rolleyes:

YOU are the one making a fool of yourself, constantly insisting that the reason there have been no massacres in the UK since Dunblane is because guns have been banned, when in reality there are thousands upon thousands of registered shotgun and rifle owners in the country.
 
Sir, this is because gun-owners, as a rule, (there are always exceptions, but just societies do not legislate around or for the benefit of "exceptions") are very responsible people. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, many of the most responsible people will own firearms if permitted by law.

In the US: Most gun owners are strict constitutionalists and libertarians, and you can see this for yourself by simply visiting a firearms message board, or visiting a rifle/pistol range in the States. Great folks they are.

Here in the UK: Firearms owners have to be pillars of the community, otherwise, they will not be allowed to hold a firearms certificate. As a member of a target-shooting club, some of the finest people I have met are members of that club.

The same goes for Switzerland, Canada, and much of the rest of the western world.


That is exactly right. One can't simply tar a whole body of people with the same brush. Likewise, it would be a gross breach of our general notions of decency and morality to deprive civil and law-abiding individuals of their legally acquired arms. Perhaps now would be the time to explore the origins of gun-control. The first gun-control legislation proposed in the US was aimed at barring black people from the right to keep and bear arms. Gun control has never been about guns, it has always been about control, and, as a policy, it clearly has racist roots.


Also true. It's "sexy" to change the world. However, the more one tries to change the world, the more they end up playing into the hands of the politically motivated elites who wish to impose their views upon the citizenry from on-high. The same goes for enviromentalists.

You sir are a fine speaker.

Also aren't most of the legal guns in Britain very difficult to go on a massacre with?

Break barrel shotguns, bolt action rifles etc?
 
You sir are a fine speaker.
Cheers.

Also aren't most of the legal guns in Britain very difficult to go on a massacre with?

Break barrel shotguns, bolt action rifles etc?

Not exactly.

One can own semi-automatic shotguns (The "n00b tube" as it's called in Counterstrike!) on a section 1 Firearms Certificate but not a shotgun certificate. Likewise, it's also possible to own revolvers with really long barrels on the same section 1 Certificate. Some anti-gun groups in the UK want these to be moved into a more prohibited category (http://www.gun-control-network.org/GCN10.htm). Shameful really, considering I can't recall any recent incidents in which legally held weapons of the type listed above were used in a criminal capacity.
 
Last edited:
Anyone know of a decent range / clay place near Oxford? Whenever I'm in the States I have a whale of a time (with EVIL BOOMSTICKS, LOL I must be a psycho!) for next to nothing - over here I get skanked £100 for 50 shells. :mad:

Sadly not able to own my own as I've got no room for a gun-safe.
 
Cheers.



Not exactly.

One can own semi-automatic shotguns (The "n00b tube" as it's called in Counterstrike!) on a section 1 Firearms Certificate but not a shotgun certificate. Likewise, it's also possible to own revolvers with really long barrels on the same section 1 Certificate. Some anti-gun groups in the UK want these to be moved into a more prohibited category (http://www.gun-control-network.org/GCN10.htm). Shameful really, considering I can't recall any recent incidents in which legally held weapons of the type listed above were used in a criminal capacity.

ahh still cant really go on a good rampage with 8 shots before having to spend a lengthy time on a reload, without getting your head stomped.

Still your right I can't remember the last legally owned gun massacre, except dunblane, but dint' he have a ak? That sort of gun i can see a reason for being illegal, just don't think a civilian has any real (i hesitate to say need but)
for anything full auto.
 
ahh still cant really go on a good rampage with 8 shots before having to spend a lengthy time on a reload, without getting your head stomped.

Still your right I can't remember the last legally owned gun massacre, except dunblane, but dint' he have a ak? That sort of gun i can see a reason for being illegal, just don't think a civilian has any real (i hesitate to say need but)
for anything full auto.

As far as I know, he didn't use an Ak47 or similar. That said, when such weapons were legal in this country (before the 1980s ban on semi-automatic, fullbore rifles) they were semi automatic rather than fully automatic. Full autos have been illegal since the 1940s, but semi-automatic rifles like the Ar15, M1 Garand, etc were popular choices for long range, competetive target shooting right up untill they were banned.
 
As far as I know, he didn't use an Ak47 or similar. That said, when such weapons were legal in this country (before the 1980s ban on semi-automatic, fullbore rifles) they were semi automatic rather than fully automatic. Full autos have been illegal since the 1940s, but semi-automatic rifles like the Ar15, M1 Garand, etc were popular choices for long range, competetive target shooting right up untill they were banned.

According to Wikipedia he did:

Wikipedia said:
At the time of the Massacre, he was in licensed possession of the following:

* Zabala shotgun
* Browning shotgun
* Beretta 92 semi-automatic 9mm pistol
* CZ ORSO semi-automatic .32 pistol
* Kalashnikov AK-47 7.62mm semi-automatic rifle
* M1 Carbine .30 semi-automatic rifle (a rare "Underwood" model)

Ryan used the Beretta pistol, and the Kalashnikov and M1 rifles, in the massacre.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom