Thank you BMW DSC!

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PMKeates said:
DSC can create levels of traction that you may not have been able to achieve without it.
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Makes your tyres stickier does it? :p

I was under the impression it works by braking/reducing power until the car is slowed sufficiently that it can operate within the traction limits again.

ie. It slows you down to prevent you passing those limits, rather than magically extending those limits.
 
In my experience you really have to be driving on the limit to get the DSC (not traction control) to kick in. Only time it kicks in for me is when I pull out of juction onto NSL where beans are required. I actually find it a hinderance in this situation.
 
divine` said:
Makes your tyres stickier does it? :p

I was under the impression it works by braking/reducing power until the car is slowed sufficiently that it can operate within the traction limits again.

ie. It slows you down to prevent you passing those limits, rather than magically extending those limits.
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It reduces power, yes, but shifts the power to wheel(s) that have more grip. As a result the car doesn't actually slow down. When you lose control, then it slows the car down/cuts power :)
 
Clarkey said:
No, ABS is designed so that you can steer while a lead footed driver with poor brake pedal control brakes hard and would have locked up the wheels. You can't steer on ice no matter what system you have (apart from studded tyres) so it might as well be locked up. Same applies in a straight line, you can't slow down on ice if it's locked up or not, so ABS is of no benefit.
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That's a pointless argument. For ABS to be useless on ice it would have to be so slippery you'd never drive on it in the first place. Who'd willingly drive along when the car couldn't steer or brake at all?
 
thepharcyde said:
In my experience you really have to be driving on the limit to get the DSC (not traction control) to kick in. Only time it kicks in for me is when I pull out of juction onto NSL where beans are required. I actually find it a hinderance in this situation.
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DSC is traction control is it not :confused: If it's not, then I need to do a mass find/replace on every post of mine :o
 
5tephen said:
It reduces power, yes, but shifts the power to wheel(s) that have more grip. As a result the car doesn't actually slow down. When you lose control, then it slows the car down/cuts power :)
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Can it shift power?

I thought it just worked with the ABS systems to brake wheels and maybe reduce engine power. I wasn't aware it also included a power redistribution element to it.
 
5tephen said:
At any level of experience.
Next year Formula 1 is ditching traction control altogether - next to none of the current drivers have ever driven an F1 car without traction control. In test drives recently the fastest driver was (surprise) Michael Schumacher when Ferrari brought him back in. The rest of them had lots of trouble.
Basically, those F1 cars are using the traction control going round every corner, and now they won't have it. Why are guys of such experience having such bother then?
PMKeates is right - it's harder to drive a car quicker without DSC.
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You are missing my point too; your F1 analogy is so far from relevant it is not worth real comment...

DSC is not designed to make bad drivers more able to drive quickly on the public highway, and it won’t make a good driver quicker, often the reverse. If you NEED to use DSC to make you quicker, you are not using it for what it was designed and it is not designed to give you the benefit you seem to think. It is a highly effective safety net for odd mistakes, not a mean to make a 21 year old with a few years experience drive more quickly around a country lane.

THAT is my point.
 
housemaster said:
You admit you are happy to rely on electronics in situations where without them you would be unable to handle the car, on the public highway, and where one day those systems may just demonstrate they are not totally flawless and your lack of skill will come to the fore with negative effect, hopefully for the rest of us just on yourself.
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The computer is much less likely to fail at driving than any human. I'd much rather trust machine over man.
 
5tephen said:
DSC is traction control is it not :confused:
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No it isn't. Though it can include it and probably does on your BMW.

Surely the name 'Dynamic Stability Control' hints that it isn't 'Traction Control'

ESP - Electronic Stability Program (or Elektronisches Stabilitätsprogramm as Mercedes first called it)
ESC - Electronic Stability Control
 
Clarkey said:
No, ABS is designed so that you can steer while a lead footed driver with poor brake pedal control brakes hard and would have locked up the wheels. You can't steer on ice no matter what system you have (apart from studded tyres) so it might as well be locked up. Same applies in a straight line, you can't slow down on ice if it's locked up or not, so ABS is of no benefit.

ABS is helpful for a lot of drivers who have poor braking technique. They want to slow down quickly so they stamp on the pedal, forgetting that it requires a delicate touch just like the clutch pedal does. Driving a car without ABS for a while will teach you a thing or two about the delicacy required when using the brake pedal.


Given the scenario where you are driving on a road with patchy ice, and your right tyres go over any icy patch while the left are still on good tarmac while braking, the right side will lock up and have no braking effect while the left side will. This will cause the car to steer to the left on its own, ABS wont be able to help in this situation because even with the brakes pulsating there will still be more braking effect on the left side. However, one of the fancy electronic braking distribution systems that falls under the DSC umbrella WILL be able to help you out by detecting the difference in wheel speed and undesired directional change, and perhaps by reducing the braking force on the left side would be able to stop the undesired direction change.
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Id rather have ABS, as in the situation when you need it its a big assistance, someone steps out or pulls out and you need to stamp on the pedal to stop ASAP you can do just that and it will stop.

Without it, just lock the brakes due to the sudden braking.

In those situations you dont have time to think oh id better cadence brake a bit or lean on the brakes a little before i really work the pedal.
 
PMKeates said:
As far as I am aware, there isn't an electronic stability control system in existence that doesn't incorporate traction control.
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Unfortunately, my lack of knowledge of every car and every ESP/DSC system made, precludes me from being able to agree or disagree with that statement.
 
Berger said:
In those situations you dont have time to think oh id better cadence brake a bit or lean on the brakes a little before i really work the pedal.
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Especially when someone steps out in the road at the same time, and your suddenly faced with two avoidance maneuvers in poor weather conditions.
 
Well in that case:
5tephen said:
Without DSC I'd be lifting my car out of a hedge every week. It's active all the time, not just when you've lost control of the car. I wouldn't corner anywhere near the speed I do at the minute if it didn't exist. You may be a super driver but if you go round corners at DSC-intervening speeds in a non-DSC car, you're going to go round sideways.
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This is a pile of tosh, as I was referring to traction control, not DSC :p
DSC has cut in on me a few times, but only really when accelerating hard on straight roads; I recall it once when cornering, when going on a long bending sliproad onto a motorway. That's my DSC history!
 
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