Football Fixtures 12-13th January **Spoilers**

I think we're missing the point here. I, a Man Utd fan knew he was wrong! :p.
Yay me.

You've spent a lot for others too, like £9m on Kuyt, £7m on Crouch, £7m on Pennant, £5m on Benayoun, £6m on Sissoko, £12m on Cisse, £11.5m on Babel and then there have been little bits here and there on average players.

Now I understand Babel is potential, but less could have been spent on getting better in the other departments. Also, I'm aware Man Utd have spent a lot, but we're in a position to and we buy potential too, £17m for Nani is a rip-off, £19m for Anderson is a lot of potential, both way too high for what they offer. Carrick was too expensive, but he's English and he did a great job.

But, onto other transfers, you look and think Benitez has done some good deals, notably Torres and Reina who are great. Alonso is okay, though I feel he's definitely over-rated, Mascherano on loan is also a good deal. But...

Dean Ashton [£7.25m] > Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt [Total of £17.5m] - Saving of £10.25m
Scott Parker [£6.5m] > Sissoko [Total of £6m] - Expense of £0.5m
Luis Boa Morte [£5m] > Pennant, Benayoun [Total of £12m] - Saving of £7m
Mikel Arteta [£2m] > Alonso, Sissoko [Total of £16.5m] - Saving of £14.5m
Joleon Lescott [£5m] > Skrtel, Arbeloa, Agger [Total of £13.6m] - Saving of £8.6m
Tim Cahill [£2m] > Alonso, Sissoko [Total of £16.5m] - Saving of £14.5m
Tuncay Sanli [£0m] > Babel, Voronin [Total of £11.5m] - Saving of £11.5m
Julio Arca [£1.75m] > Pennant [Total of £7m] - Saving of £5.75m
Martin Petrov [£4.7m] > Benayoun [Total of £5m] - Saving of £300k
Elano [£8m] > Babel [Total of 11.5m] - Saving of £3.5m
Shaun Maloney [£1m]
Ashley Young [£9.65m] > Benayoun, Pennant, Babel [£23.5m] - Saving of £13.85m
Robin Van Persie [£3m] > Cisse [Total of £14m] - Saving of £11m
Lassana Diarra [£2m]
Roque Santa Cruz [£3.5m] > Crouch, Babel, Voronin [Total of £18.5m] - Saving of £15m
Benni McCarthy [Unknown] > Kuyt, Crouch [Total of £17.5m] - Saving of Lots
David Bentley [Unknown] > Alonso, Benayoun [Total of £15.5m] - Saving of Lots
Christopher Samba [£400k]

Those are with prices taken from Sky Sports or BBC, all of which were bargains and cheaper than some of the garbage purchased. I understant against Lescott I compared Skrtel which is perhaps unfair as he hasn't played and no one knows, but I'm sure you'll see my point. I've also tried to compare players bought in the same years for the most of it, or close enough for a point to be made.
Those are just players plying their trade in the Premiership, God forbid I should go abroad naming players such as Afonso Alves.
 
nokkonwud said:
I think we're missing the point here. I, a Man Utd fan knew he was wrong! :p.
Yay me.

You've spent a lot for others too, like £9m on Kuyt, £7m on Crouch, £7m on Pennant, £5m on Benayoun, £6m on Sissoko, £12m on Cisse, £11.5m on Babel and then there have been little bits here and there on average players.

Now I understand Babel is potential, but less could have been spent on getting better in the other departments. Also, I'm aware Man Utd have spent a lot, but we're in a position to and we buy potential too, £17m for Nani is a rip-off, £19m for Anderson is a lot of potential, both way too high for what they offer. Carrick was too expensive, but he's English and he did a great job.

But, onto other transfers, you look and think Benitez has done some good deals, notably Torres and Reina who are great. Alonso is okay, though I feel he's definitely over-rated, Mascherano on loan is also a good deal. But...

Dean Ashton [£7.25m] > Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt [Total of £17.5m] - Saving of £10.25m
Scott Parker [£6.5m] > Sissoko [Total of £6m] - Expense of £0.5m
Luis Boa Morte [£5m] > Pennant, Benayoun [Total of £12m] - Saving of £7m
Mikel Arteta [£2m] > Alonso, Sissoko [Total of £16.5m] - Saving of £14.5m
Joleon Lescott [£5m] > Skrtel, Arbeloa, Agger [Total of £13.6m] - Saving of £8.6m
Tim Cahill [£2m] > Alonso, Sissoko [Total of £16.5m] - Saving of £14.5m
Tuncay Sanli [£0m] > Babel, Voronin [Total of £11.5m] - Saving of £11.5m
Julio Arca [£1.75m] > Pennant [Total of £7m] - Saving of £5.75m
Martin Petrov [£4.7m] > Benayoun [Total of £5m] - Saving of £300k
Elano [£8m] > Babel [Total of 11.5m] - Saving of £3.5m
Shaun Maloney [£1m]
Ashley Young [£9.65m] > Benayoun, Pennant, Babel [£23.5m] - Saving of £13.85m
Robin Van Persie [£3m] > Cisse [Total of £14m] - Saving of £11m
Lassana Diarra [£2m]
Roque Santa Cruz [£3.5m] > Crouch, Babel, Voronin [Total of £18.5m] - Saving of £15m
Benni McCarthy [Unknown] > Kuyt, Crouch [Total of £17.5m] - Saving of Lots
David Bentley [Unknown] > Alonso, Benayoun [Total of £15.5m] - Saving of Lots
Christopher Samba [£400k]

Those are with prices taken from Sky Sports or BBC, all of which were bargains and cheaper than some of the garbage purchased. I understant against Lescott I compared Skrtel which is perhaps unfair as he hasn't played and no one knows, but I'm sure you'll see my point. I've also tried to compare players bought in the same years for the most of it, or close enough for a point to be made.
Those are just players plying their trade in the Premiership, God forbid I should go abroad naming players such as Afonso Alves.
Click to expand...

Sush about Alves ;)
 
You would have better players and more money to buy more.

You could have had:
  • Arteta
  • Cahill
  • Tuncay
  • Robin Van Persie
  • Shaun Maloney
  • Christopher Samba
  • Julio Arca
All for the cost of one Dirk Kuyt as well as possibly David Bentley as I don't think he cost any more than £1m IIRC.

If that's the case that would be 3 midfielders better than any of yours bar Gerrard. A wide player better than Pennant. A defender as good as your bench players, a CM better than Sissoko (Maloney) and 2 strikers better than Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch.
 
Arteta and Alonso were midfield partners at Sociadad. I'm sorry, but that's quite the miss.
Tuncay was free and was European proven. Robin Van Persie was well known as a massive Dutch potential. Arca was the best player at Sunderland by a million miles and is probably the best player at Middlesbrough now.

But my point isn't that, my point was towards people who continually say "They were the best we could afford" when they're not, and not only the best you could have afforded, but you've overpaid.
 
nokkonwud said:
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Click to expand...
Sorry i don't see your point. I was asking if you could name somebody we could have signed last summer for a similar fee instead of Pennant etc.

Like Pigeon's mentioned, im not too sure what your trying to say. We could sell our entire squad and buy 1 player for £1m and we'll make loads of money ;)

Out of all those transfers you've listed the only players which are players which we should be after and that would make an improvement to who we've signed (that were signed during Benitez's time) are Petrov for Benayoun, Arteta for Pennant and McCarthy for Kuyt.

Ashton, Parker, Boa Morte, Lescott, Cahil, Tuncay, Arca, Maloney, Diarra and Samba are not improvements on the players you've compared them with. Van Persie was signed before Benitez (also Cisse wasn't signed by Benitez), Young was signed in January for £12m when we didn't have £1.5m for Lucas Neil, Elano's a decent player but only comparable to Babel so we'll have to see how that turns out, iirc Bentley was signed prior to any wide player Benitez signed and Santa Cruz would have been a decent buy if we had the cash at the time (not sure if we did) but you have to remember the reaction that transfer got on here.
nokkonwud said:
Arteta and Alonso were midfield partners at Sociadad. I'm sorry, but that's quite the miss.
Tuncay was free and was European proven. Robin Van Persie was well known as a massive Dutch potential. Arca was the best player at Sunderland by a million miles and is probably the best player at Middlesbrough now.

But my point isn't that, my point was towards people who continually say "They were the best we could afford" when they're not, and not only the best you could have afforded, but you've overpaid.
Click to expand...

Tuncay's **** as is Arca, Tuncay may have been an improvement on Voronin but not Crouch or Kuyt and Arca wouldn't get in our youth side. Van Persie was signed prior to Benitez. Also Arteta plays wide on the right but i'd take him over Pennant.
 
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BaZ87 said:
Sorry i don't see your point. I was asking if you could name somebody we could have signed last summer for a similar fee instead of Pennant etc.
Click to expand...

I did. In fact, I'd have saved you £5m too and signed a better player in Arca.

I'm sorry, you're talking rubbish if you can't see at least several of those as improvements, notably Cahill, Bentley, Arca, Tuncay, Van Persie, Ashton, Lescott, Elano, Petrov, Diarra, McCarthy and Santa Cruz...
 
nokkonwud said:
Arteta and Alonso were midfield partners at Sociadad. I'm sorry, but that's quite the miss.
Tuncay was free and was European proven. Robin Van Persie was well known as a massive Dutch potential. Arca was the best player at Sunderland by a million miles and is probably the best player at Middlesbrough now.

But my point isn't that, my point was towards people who continually say "They were the best we could afford" when they're not, and not only the best you could have afforded, but you've overpaid.
Click to expand...

You cant expect Benitez to spot every bargain there is. I don't think you can expect any manager to be able to do that.

There's risk and luck to factor in also. None of these managers know if a player is going to be a certain success or not.
 
Im sorry but Arca is terrible and a crock. There a few players where the money could have been spent better but like Anderson says you'd have to be able to see into the future to know how they turned out. Hughes was ripped apart for signing Santa Cruz and McCarthy but they've both done well.

The point is not where we can save money but where we could have signed players of the standard of a top club for the money we spent and imo only McCarthy instead of Kuyt and then Arteta and Petrov for Pennant and Benayoun.
 
nokkonwud said:
I'm sorry, you're talking rubbish if you can't see at least several of those as improvements, notably Cahill, Bentley, Arca, Tuncay, Van Persie, Ashton, Lescott, Elano, Petrov, Diarra, McCarthy and Santa Cruz...
Click to expand...
Firstly read my whole post and ive said that some of those would make improvements.

Again, you're missing the point and in some cases talking rubbish. Firstly Cahill wouldn't get into our side, neither would Arca, Tuncay, Ashton, Lescott, or Diarra so there signings would be pointless. Bentley was signed before we signed Pennant so you can't say instead of signing Pennant you should have signed Bentley, Van Persie was signed before Rafa came so he could hardly sign him, Elano is a excellent player but the only player you can compare him with is Babel and untill we see how Babel turns out you can't judge whether signing Babel instead of Elano was a good or bad decision. Santa Cruz was signed this year where we signed Voronin, it seems as if Rafa had a budget so if the money wasn't there then he simply could sign Santa Cruz instead. Like i said above its perfectly fair to say that we could have signed McCarthy instead of Kuyt and that would have been a better decision.
 
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benitez is a clown who doesn't have an eye for a player and whose current tactics will never win liverpool a premiership.

ok anyone would take torres in their side but it didn't take a magician to make that signing, a lot of the rest have just proved bad judgement.

he doesn't have half the nouse of a ferguson or a wenger who now how to build a team and have demonstrated it repeatedly, and also know what it takes to keep a team in the title race.

i also don't necessarily believe you need to pay the top money for good strikers, wenger has also demonstrated this how many times now? ;)
 
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