no but what about killing someone, if i chose to kill you what right do i have to be kept alive?
Iran: two youths to be flogged and thrown off a cliff
- Thread starter KNiVES
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no but what about killing someone, if i chose to kill you what right do i have to be kept alive?
I was more ripping on the fact that you have no grasp of your native language than the fact that it was in capitals. And bold isn't shouting, it's emphasis.
You haven't answered my point about whether you would find it perfectly acceptable (say you were gay), that if you wanted to live without fear of death, then you'd have to leave your family and friends of 18 years behind and move to a new country by yourself, just because you are gay. That sounds fair right?
And don't get idiotic and start throwing the "PC" word around. It only makes you look even more like someone who believes everything they read in the newspapers. On the topic of immigration, do you actually know much about it, have you experienced being a refugee trying to move to a country where you'd be safe? Do you have any experience about what you are talking about? I doubt it somehow.
You shouldn't be killed because an eye for an eye isn't going to help anyone out.
Why is your way of "saving lives" ethics right, when compared to another countries system ie drug smuggling wrong?
Why can you not accept that other cultures and laws are different and leave it at that? In my mind you are no different to a rabid Islamic person screaming at the death of female models. In his opinion he's right, his morals are superior, and ethics are right too. You are wrong, and barbaric (the viewpoing on barbaric is set differently to each person)
If say playing computer games was illegal in this country, I'd leave and live in a country that is was legal. Or if I break the law I accept the consquences. Have you ever taken drugs? If so you're a hypercrite, because you're breaking the law- the principle is the same between you puffing a joint and those two gay men. You should go to Amsterdam if you want to take drugs.
No it doesn't sound fair, but it's against the law. The law isn't "fair" but that's the way it goes. If you want to puff a joint in your own home you can't because it's illegal. Is that "fair" No.
Why can you not accept that other cultures and laws are different and leave it at that? In my mind you are no different to a rabid Islamic person screaming at the death of female models. In his opinion he's right, his morals are superior, and ethics are right too. You are wrong, and barbaric (the viewpoing on barbaric is set differently to each person)
If say playing computer games was illegal in this country, I'd leave and live in a country that is was legal. Or if I break the law I accept the consquences. Have you ever taken drugs? If so you're a hypercrite, because you're breaking the law- the principle is the same between you puffing a joint and those two gay men. You should go to Amsterdam if you want to take drugs.
No it doesn't sound fair, but it's against the law. The law isn't "fair" but that's the way it goes. If you want to puff a joint in your own home you can't because it's illegal. Is that "fair" No.
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do i live in the country i was born in
no i dont
i wasnt no refugee or anything but its not hard to move is it, if i had a choice move or die id move tbh
if ud die rather than move then welcome to the all incredible club of idiots that call themselves martyrs
It's incredibly depressing. I do find it strange that there's a disproportionate amount of people with these kind of views on OcUK. I do hope that they all just gather here, rather than a case of me misjudging the amount of the population who hold these views and just keep quiet. It's strange how of all places, they've gathered on a computer forum!
I really hope that's the case, else this country is destined for the crapper :/
How does smuggling drugs save lives?
Stop using trivial examples where you have a choice in the matter like playing computer games, it doesn't add any weight to your point. As [TW]Fox had said earlier, if Hitler was slaughtering all the Jews in Nazi Germany, you'd agree that it was perfectly okay of him to do it, as it was his country and his laws? And I'd say that the meaning of barbaric was not entirely relative, there's definitely some kind of absolute definition to it.
I'll accept everything a country wants to do as long as it doesn't involve killing people for ridiculous things like being gay.
Your posts are positively headache inducing.
The point is, that it shouldn't be a choice between "move or die", you should be able to live in the country of your birth with your family. And I doubt your move from the country of your birth to this country was anything even resembling what an Iranian person who was gay would have to go through. I'm afraid you're just plain wrong...it is hard to move. I doubt it's straightforward to leave Iran in the first place, then you need to have the money to move to England (for example), which is a long way, when your domestic currency is worth nothing compared to the pound, so the income you've spent years earning in Iran isn't worth jack when you get to Europe, then you've got to somehow finance the learning of English, somehow register as an immigrant in the UK (which, if you were running the country would be damn hard by the sounds of it anyway!), and manage to set yourself up in a country where thousands of native people find it impossible to get on the property ladder and struggle to find jobs. Wow, forgive me, that sounds really easy doesn't it!
So now you think your way is superior. How arrogant. Can you not put yourself into a Islamic persons shoes? Perhaps he agrees with the death penalty for gays, and finds the Western way vile and disgusting? I don't have a problem saying that our way is wrong. I will have a problem when he says "Islam should have change the regime in the UK"
So you would have no problem for someone doing something in the UK which is illegal, and therefore should not be prosecuted, because "he wanted to do it" oh dear..
Who are you referring to?
Who do you think?
You know what, I'd almost find it okay, if in their country they wanted to put gay people in jail. I say almost, because I wouldn't, but it would be a damn sight better than killing them in the way that has just happened.
And you still haven't answered the analogy of whether you could just sit back and find it perfectly acceptable to watch Hitler slaughtering the Jews, and just use the argument "his country, his rules".
The mass extimantion of the jews is nothing like the punishment for a individual breaking the law. Genocide of that group is indiscrimate women, babies, men, children etc. The only analogy to our system would be that for ANY CRIME AT ALL the punishment is death. Which it isn't.
Whatever. You can moan all you like, but you're not going to change there law. So just leave it. How would YOU feel that groups in other countries are discussing that what you do is disgusting and should be forcibly changed? (regardless if it hurts no one) Oh wait you way is still right, and there's is wrong?
The fact is they broke the law. And that's it. Just like someone doing 90mph, would you whinge when you get banned from driving? You knew perfectly you were speeding. The punishment is irrelevent here. It's the law.
Speeding and being gay are not even minutely related, I don't understand why you keep trying to compare them
?The mass extermination of the Jews...a group of people, is exactly like the killing of a gay person for being gay (and by extension, if there was a law that being gay was illegal, and punishable by death then all those individuals do add up you know!). And as I said before, being Jewish is more arguably a choice, and this makes the killing of gays who don't have a choice even less palatable. It's indiscriminate in the sex, age etc, but it's not entirely indiscriminate clearly..you had to be Jewish to have it happen to you, and not everyone was Jewish.
badbob said:
I fail to remember when I called for the law to be forcibly changed. That's a whole new debate. I'm merely arguing in the hypothetical, that what has happened is wrong. If groups in other countries think what I do is disgusting then they are perfectly entitled to do that, but I feel there is an absolute ethical stance, that killing people is wrong, so yes, they would be wrong and I'd be right if they started killing people.
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the fact is its illigal to be gay in there country with the punishment of death
they got cought they got the punishment same for any other law
the fact is u live in this panzy of a country where everything is soft and wet so u aint used to it, to them its normal
tell u what dude, if u download 1 song or 1 movie i hope u get put in jail, there laws suck and ours rule get youself acustomed to that one go to jail move directly to jail do not pass go do not collect £200
they got cought they got the punishment same for any other law
the fact is u live in this panzy of a country where everything is soft and wet so u aint used to it, to them its normal
tell u what dude, if u download 1 song or 1 movie i hope u get put in jail, there laws suck and ours rule get youself acustomed to that one go to jail move directly to jail do not pass go do not collect £200
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Seriously guys, stop with the stupid examples. And it's really bugging me now, but it's 'caught' not 'cought'. I've never seen anyone spell it that way, it's quite amusing. What's a "panzy of a country"?!
Comparing downloading a song illegally and being killed for being gay is one of the most ridiculous things posted in this thread and there's been a lot I can tell you!
Just seen your edit:
Cupra said:
Whose laws suck and whose rule? What are you talking about? It's getting increasingly hard to discern any kind of concrete point from any of your posts at the moment, as you just seem to be rambling like a madman, about the demise of the UK due to it's soft and wet laws, and I don't quite see how that has much relevance to this thread?
I disagree with that. Killing people isn't wrong, if you have a reason to do it. I would have the death penalty for
Child molestation
Murder
Selling Drugs
Bad customer service.
Chavs
I'm right, and you're wrong. My ethics are superior to yours, because I'm right.
Because
A) Speeding in the UK is illegal
and
B) I (presume) those two had intercourse, which is illegal in Iran, and probably Saudi Arabia.
IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME.
You are still not "getting it" If you downloaded a Mp3 and get arrested would you agree with it? Yes.
It doesn't matter if the punishment is a slap on the wrist, or being thrown into a lion pit, you knew the punishment and broke the law anyway. Entirely your responsbility, you MADE A CHOICE to do it. Those two lads MADE A CHOICE to have gay sex, which is forbidden in Iran.
I'll ask you this- if were you gay and visited Iran would you have sex with another man? If so by the same logic, you would agree to an Iranian man coming to the UK and doing something illegal (if it's legal in his country)
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It's got the point now where I really do hope you are just winding me up. I think it's clear we differ on the validity of the death penalty, so that's going to be quite a circular little argument.
Speeding in the UK is a choice. Being gay is not. Being gay is a deeply emotional thing for the person who is gay, and in much the same way as it is for a heterosexual person, is incredibly important in the emotional welfare of the person (Just take music as an example, and think of all the songs about love). Speeding is not quite the same! Speeding is illegal for a good reason. Somehow I don't think there is quite the same strong reasoning behind banning homosexual relations. They are both illegal, and that's as far as the comparison stretches I'm afraid!
badbob said:
Like I said earlier, I'd almost agree if they got arrested if being gay was illegal, but I don't agree with them being executed. I'd argue the punishment was fairly important in a supposed system of law and justice. By your reasoning, we could just have a blanket law that means anyone who does anything wrong is executed.
Steal a book - Executed
Slander a person - Executed
Speed - Executed
It's entirely your responsibility right? So that should be fine. You knew the punishment when you stole the book. So now you must die.
How utterly stupid.
I don't think it's right that homosexual relations should be illegal, but in the very weakest form of my view, you can take it that I think that regardless of the law the death penalty is clearly a ridiculous punishment for such a "crime".
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are you are fighting cos you are a regular law breaker of laws you think are stupid, downlaoding songs/movies? cracking a game/proggie? speeding? taking drugs? dealing drugs? rape? racism? pedophilia? murder?
what crime deserves what punishment? who are you to judge someone? there country they chose the laws and are standing by them, somthing our country should do.........handing the maximum penilty out too good on em......... non of this ohh well i wont do it again u can have a slap on the wrists this time
the fact is there laws if you break them then u will/should be punished no ifs no buts u live here u know the law.
if u do it u get punisehd you know what your doing when you are doing it
some rapists are sick and in there eyes what they do is ok if they rape a man or rape a woman is irrelivant, but in there yes its ok. so should there crime be unpunished?
what crime deserves what punishment? who are you to judge someone? there country they chose the laws and are standing by them, somthing our country should do.........handing the maximum penilty out too good on em......... non of this ohh well i wont do it again u can have a slap on the wrists this time
the fact is there laws if you break them then u will/should be punished no ifs no buts u live here u know the law.
if u do it u get punisehd you know what your doing when you are doing it
some rapists are sick and in there eyes what they do is ok if they rape a man or rape a woman is irrelivant, but in there yes its ok. so should there crime be unpunished?
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