England captaincy / possible squad

Rooney's sending off was not the reason England lost. How do you know we would have scored had he not got sent off? Would Rooney being available to take a penalty automatically mean Lampard and Gerrard wouldn't have missed?

Rooney shouldn't have even been at the world cup.
 
This thread is absolutely ridiculous and is spiralling out of control...its just turning into a liverpool vs man utd debate...all the united supporters saying rooney's better, all the liverp

I thought it was Rooney vs Kuyt :D

Anyway, I thought Liverpool fans hated Owen now
 
I genuinely believe Gerrard has been poor for a while at international level, I've been saying as such for quite a while rather than jumping on any sort of bandwagon in recent times. Lampard looked a better player during the last campaign (when picked).

If you remember he started this campaign out on the right with Lampard and Hargreaves in the middle and was doing quite well out there. He then moved into the middle when Lampard was dropped or 'injured' (which ever story you go along with) and some people said he single handedly saved McClaren his job vs Andorra (maybe thats gone against him ;)). It was only the last 4 or so games (2 he played with an injury) where he was playing particularly poor and thats fresh in people's minds.

Other than that he's always played alongside Lampard or Scholes and has been expected to play the holding role (especially with Scholes) and like i said earlier people are disappointed because he doesn't do what he does for Liverpool but he can only do whats been asked of him.
 
Gerrard hasn't been asked to play the holding role though, I wish he had been.

If he has then he hasn't done it because Lampard has been playing much deeper than he should be.
 
He has and the performance he put in playing there vs Brazil was as good as i can recall anybody playing it in a long time. Maybe Lampard was asked not to bomb on as much as he does for Chelsea but from what ive seen Gerrard has been extremely restricted and has spent most of his time sitting off the play backing things up.
 
Rooney shouldn't have even been at the world cup.

What? His sending off was as much to blame as beckham was when england lost to argentina in '98. He put england at a significant disadvantage because he couldnt control his temper, if he had remained on dont you thing we would have had a much better chance? Doesn't matter in the slightest if he should/shouldn't have been there; he was there and picked to play so that doesnt excuse his behaviour...
 
I cant believe people actually complain about rooney's performances, when there are players that play crap and put little to no effort in.
 
I was going to give a full response to this but it's so bloody ridiculous that I can't be arsed
What's ridiculous? That a player who's failed to show he can play alongside Frank Lampard, and equally failed to show he's any better than Lampard in the same position, shouldn't be a cert to even make the England squad?
 
I can, he didn't really turn it on for england for one reason or another, you can only take things on how people have performed and he definitely wasn't ace. i'd still have him in there alongside owen though.

The old Gerrard Lampard playing together debate has been answered for me, you get people saying 'but they've only actually played blah blah games together.' but from what i've seen it doesn't work. both of them have deeper lying midfielders playing next to them for their clubs where they are both far more effective. I'd say you have either Gerrard/Lampard and then pick from Barry/Carrick/Hargreaves. potentially i'd have Carrick in there due to his greater range of passing, however he hasn't really stepped up to the plate as yet for england so I'd probably just go with Hargreaves.
 
What's ridiculous? That a player who's failed to show he can play alongside Frank Lampard, and equally failed to show he's any better than Lampard in the same position, shouldn't be a cert to even make the England squad?

The fact that he's undeniably Englands best midfield player and he and Rooney are the only potential match winners we have. Like G|mp said regarding Rooney, you don't leave out players that can single handedly win you games even if they aren't playing well and Gerrard's scoring and creating goals better than ever this season; 15 goals and 12 assists in 28 appearances.

@DaN: Carrick's got no chance, he's simply not good enough defensively to cope with the top end attacking players he'd have to face.
 
i'd have gerrard in my team as well btw. his current form for his club is top so i'd give him the opportunity to show what he can do alongside someone who is willing to sit back.
In all i think Gerrard has much more to his game than Lampard but i wouldn't make him an automatic choice because Lampard despite perhaps being more limited can be just as effective as Gerrard. On current club form though i'd let Gerrard get first dibs.
 
to be fair one of yours brought up the old Rooney vs Kuyt debate. i laughed when i read it in 2006, today i just shook my head.

no one is "one of mine" so I can't take any responsibility, haven't seen it but IF anyone says Kuyt is better than Rooney then that is as daft as saying that Gerrard won't be in the England squad


of course it may be that either comment was just posted to provoke a reaction
 
For the record weringo didn't say Kuyt was better than Rooney. He was asking G|mp whether he'd take Kuyt over Owen as G|mp was saying he'd take Rooney over Owen for his work-rate despite Rooney's lack of goals etc (he did clarify that after).
 
our midfield debate truly is shocking, Gerrard is basically a star player, then you'v got lampard, often doesnt have as much to his game but the ball ends up in the back of the net anyway so he cant be faulted. Hargreaves looks like he will grow as a player at Utd as hes looked pretty encouraging from what I have seen, and Carrick has looked ok from what iv seen this season too. Barry is decent but he often doesnt look as good as the others, although hes very worthy of a place in the squad.

I dont think we can really comment on the midfield v much atm, because Sven didnt utilise our midfield assets v well, and Mclaren is a clown.
Capello can deal with egos etc, and hes got his own style, he might actually be able to get Gerrard and Lampard playing together, but if not it really depends on what type of opponent and formation are being played on the choices, capello tactically looks at everything and will change squads and formations depending on opponents, luckily Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, Carrick, Hargreaves all offer something different from each other, they all have different strengths, styles of play etc. They will all have their own roles.

As for captain, ferdinand would be a strong contender if he cut the nonsense, but hes a cocky kinda guy and that pays off in his game, but i dont think itll be him.
As said earlier theres a lot of bad feelings towards terry, i think Capello may have picked up on them already, he likes being the big swinging **** so he wont take any rubbish, so that puts doubt in my mind over Terry, plus hes having injury setbacks.
Owen - no, we dont want a part time captain, he will have been replaced by 2010, we'v got Agbonlahor, Walcott, Derbyshire and others fighting for his place by then, though he will be in the squad in the meantime, chances are captaincy wont permanently go to someone who will probably not be well off in the pecking order by WC.
Lampard - not sure if he would handle it all that great, may thrive on it, doesnt strike me as the type whos that bothered about the responsibility for his country, think he thinks hes already got it all. He does tbh.
Gerrard - Much like most of england squad has been poor, captaincy didnt up his game when he got it in previous games, generally was bad feeling in the team though, low moral etc. Plus he wasnt really handed the responsibility, it was lent to him from Terry.
Rooney - seems a lot more mature now, workrate could be inspiring, much like Gerrards, cant really see it though, maybes if an older squad member was given it, and retired it closer to world cup for him, not really sure.
 
People who are saying Rooney doesn't do much or isn't playing well really should watch him. He might not score, but by God he's involved in everything Man Utd do. He was also the best player in our recent International games.
 
The fact that he's undeniably Englands best midfield player and he and Rooney are the only potential match winners we have. Like G|mp said regarding Rooney, you don't leave out players that can single handedly win you games even if they aren't playing well and Gerrard's scoring and creating goals better than ever this season; 15 goals and 12 assists in 28 appearances.
You're not getting this are you?

Gerrard for Liverpool = Yes, fantastic.
Gerrard for England = disappointingly average.

It's not even to do with who's next to him. He just doesn't get into the game, doesn't motivate the team, doesn't grab things by the scruff when they're down, and doesn't put himself in the same spaces, as he does for 'Pool.
 
It's not even to do with who's next to him. He just doesn't get into the game, doesn't motivate the team, doesn't grab things by the scruff when they're down, and doesn't put himself in the same spaces, as he does for 'Pool.

Surely this counts for most of the England team? Unfair to label all the blame on Gerrard.
 
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