In fairness, the Usmanov thing was partly an extension of the ongoing trouble the board has had with David Dein - who, since getting chucked off said board, destabilised both players and managers (including the rumours that he had some part in Henry wanting away from us), gave Wenger the headache of trying to find a new player negotiator, got Stan Kroenke involved and threatening to buy us out before the board coule finally settle with him, used Kroenke's position to try and force himself back into the boardroom, and then finally got Usmanov eyeing us up.
DIC To Make Fresh Buy-Out Bid For Liverpool
- Thread starter DuncyBoy
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Was a lot more than the red tops i think, the independent and times had it front page news a couple of times, it even got mentioned in the commons when Usmanovs lawyers shut down an anti-usmanov blog and took out Boris Johnsons blog with it, in the middle of a mayoral campaign(not such a bad thing though).
The Liverpool situation is slightly worse as there's all this Klinsmann talk but i can't see how the players should be affected. When the Glazers bought Man U and all the media hype around then they still managed to win the league in their first full season.
Just seems a poor excuse to me, if anything they should be playing harder for their manager but aside from the Marseille and Luton games they haven't really shown a consistent level of desire recently.
I agree, its a rubbish excuse. But Arsenal's bid thing was about 1% of this.
Rafa has played the yanks very well. Fans & players now at loggerheads with them, now they will find it ridiculously hard to secure the finance they need, Rafa has almost forced them out.
He's no stranger to boardroom level games, he's been hardened by his experience at Valencia, and has brought that experience to the table in this situation. The yanks have lost, its damage limitation now, i cannot see a revival or turn around from them now unless they stubbornly fight on and screw Liverpool over again and again finally selling them at no profit leaving them in a state. They could do some real damage and still get their money back, its easily done.
It could happen, the way they've treated the whole situation over the past few months suggests they might be a hot headed loose cannon at boardroom level. It all started so brightly, but the news conference was a sham in the end, they really said what the fans wanted to hear, complete liars in the end of the day.
But even if they do go, Rafa still isn't good enough to win the league, not with 3 teams lightyears ahead of them in terms of depth and or consistency. I thought Liverpool would have been up there this season, but its another season where Rafa fails to progress the team even after spending the millions he so desperately wanted.
He's a good manager don't get me wrong, but his style just doesn't suit this league, and if he were to win the league he'd need the best team in the prem to do it, and he'd need depth past that starting XI, and he'd need luck with him all the way. Basically its not going to happen.
The argument for him though is that a change would mean starting all over again. Houllier and Rafa have spend and sold about the same amount bar a few million, only Rafa had a decent team to sell, Houllier had near enough sweet fa. Another revamp is going to cost about the same, and again, Liverpool might not even push on and get closer in the league, they might even fall away some more, nothing is certain in football. But taking everything in to consideration, Liverpool need this takeover and the new board need to bring in their own man as i think a clever Liverpool fan, and not one sweeped up in all the anti yank stuff would acknowledge Rafa has played his part in all of this, and he's made some major mistakes costing lots of valuable points which all add up to no league challenge for another season.
As a toon fan i know all about bad boards and trust me, this is nothing compared to what we've had in the past ten years, so count yourself lucky its only going to last one, and you move on, and i hope so. Liverpool were one of my first memories of football and i have some connections with the club in my own personal way. For me Liverpool FC needs to be on top, just as Barca in Spain or Juve or Bayern in their countries, it doesn't feel right them not being in the mix for the league titles. Fair enough fall away at the end, but to be out of by almost every Christmas isn't good enough for Liverpool's ambition.
Are the American owners, murdering rapists? No, is Usmanov, very possibly. (Craig Murray Blogs suggest he is) So in that respect it was/is potentially far worse than the Liverpool takeover/ownership.
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Absolutely the Liverpool situation is worse (bit more than slightly in many respects
) at least Wengers job was never questioned.Thats a very fine post sir.
Absolutely the Liverpool situation is worse (bit more than slightly in many respects
Thats a very fine post sir.
I'm sure none of this would have come to light if the media had their favourite scab to pick at; the NUFC board and their silly mistakes. But now the moronic leech has gone they've nothing better to do, they had a go at the sacking of Sam, but we all know Sam only had himself to blame, so they've picked Liverpool's poor league form for an easy target.
Bad stories sell better than the good, we all know that. Its not nice being in the spotlight but it will go away when the gutter press find their next victim. Soap opera stuff, only we all know Liverpool fans are easily lead down the garden path when it comes to negativity at their club, usually at the risk of bringing more on to themselves and that's what's happening right now. Easy to say when you are not caught up in it i know, but that doesn't mean i'm wrong in what i say.
Take a step back and look at what's happening, who's benefiting and what outcome is being forced upon the club? You'll see it all comes from the media's intention to destabilize the club, give it a kick when its down, just don't be part of the mob that's doing the kicking i say.
If you are a Liverpool fan you might find my comments patronizing, thats not my aim, i just think you need to take a step back and see who wins out of all this, it certainly isn't you or your club.
lol, try being a Leeds fan
Truly Top Trumped there!
OT: Didn't you read about Wise going to NUFC as DOF?
What will the press think of next?
I think Liverpool FC are in a really difficult situation at the moment. As much as they don't like the idea of how the club is being run under G & H, will it be any better under DIC ?
They may invest more in the short term but ultimately the key is in the title Dubai, Investment Company. They will only put more money in than G & H if they know they will get more out. It certainly won't be for the love of the club they want to buy it thats for sure
Whatever the outcome, the fans will suffer one way or the other whover is in control
They may invest more in the short term but ultimately the key is in the title Dubai, Investment Company. They will only put more money in than G & H if they know they will get more out. It certainly won't be for the love of the club they want to buy it thats for sure
Whatever the outcome, the fans will suffer one way or the other whover is in control
Soldato
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Leeds board > * even the newcastle one for being complete goons
Soldato
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Look at the Godolphin stables and how they operate. They don't make much of a profit, if any.
So do you think that they are a benaevolent investor then ? With the money that is floating around football nowadays I would be cynical if they claim their intentions are anything different from H & G
I've said it before, the whole problem with the Yanks has overshadowed one of the real problems we've got, and thats the teams performance this season. Its simply not good enough, and 95% of that is down to Benitez.
The board room problem is highly worrying for me as a fan, and I want it sorted out as quickly as possibly, but I'm not with those fans who're simply shouting out blind support for Benitez without actually looking at what he's doing. Its like they're not even looking at the football at all.
Benitez this season has been AWFUL. He's simply failed as a manager. From the players he's choosing to use, his complaining, the tactics, rotation and total lack of people-management. He's got a team full of capable to world-class players, and he simply doesn't know how to use them or rally them.
I'm as upset as any Liverpool fan, but I think a lot of our fans need to understand that there isn't just 1 problem at the club, there are 2 equally disturbing problems. Some people need to step back and look at the bigger picture and not just jump on the shouting bandwagon.
The board room problem is highly worrying for me as a fan, and I want it sorted out as quickly as possibly, but I'm not with those fans who're simply shouting out blind support for Benitez without actually looking at what he's doing. Its like they're not even looking at the football at all.
Benitez this season has been AWFUL. He's simply failed as a manager. From the players he's choosing to use, his complaining, the tactics, rotation and total lack of people-management. He's got a team full of capable to world-class players, and he simply doesn't know how to use them or rally them.
I'm as upset as any Liverpool fan, but I think a lot of our fans need to understand that there isn't just 1 problem at the club, there are 2 equally disturbing problems. Some people need to step back and look at the bigger picture and not just jump on the shouting bandwagon.
Soldato
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No, I am not that naive but I do think they will approach it with a little less of a clinical manner.
What will the press think of next?
God knows, but you can bet as soon as Leeds look to be on the up and challenging to get back into the Prem the press will start writing about them. That is one thing I don't miss.
You aint kidding.
i wouldn't. but i think half the thing is don't worry about that as long as they run it well. sadly it's less important for your owners to love the club than to run it sensibly and to strive for the business to improve. You'll be an investment, they'll wear a liverpool shirt or something to appease the fans but at the end of the day they'll see the value of the club in $$'s. what fans need to get is that that is acceptable as long as they acknowledge that success on the pitch is vital for success off it and work accordingly.
I've said it before, the whole problem with the Yanks has overshadowed one of the real problems we've got, and thats the teams performance this season. Its simply not good enough, and 95% of that is down to Benitez.
The board room problem is highly worrying for me as a fan, and I want it sorted out as quickly as possibly, but I'm not with those fans who're simply shouting out blind support for Benitez without actually looking at what he's doing. Its like they're not even looking at the football at all.
Benitez this season has been AWFUL. He's simply failed as a manager. From the players he's choosing to use, his complaining, the tactics, rotation and total lack of people-management. He's got a team full of capable to world-class players, and he simply doesn't know how to use them or rally them.
I'm as upset as any Liverpool fan, but I think a lot of our fans need to understand that there isn't just 1 problem at the club, there are 2 equally disturbing problems. Some people need to step back and look at the bigger picture and not just jump on the shouting bandwagon.
Well said, i'm glad someone hasn't been caught up in the press hysteria of recent events.
Rafa's come out of this smelling of roses, you must admire him for that at least.
Could it be argued that the Yanks are running it sensibly though ?
I am no expert on football finances but like any other business, I suspect cash flow is king. They won't spend mega bucks on the cream of the worlds talents as they will cost a massive ammount in wages. So this is going to hit them hard on the cash flow given the relative size of the ground compared to United and Arsenal.
So there idea maybe build the stadium at lowest possible cost, get capacity to deliver more cash flow, more cash flow means better wages, better wages means better players i.e. a long term sensible approach ?
/devils advocate
I am no expert on football finances but like any other business, I suspect cash flow is king. They won't spend mega bucks on the cream of the worlds talents as they will cost a massive ammount in wages. So this is going to hit them hard on the cash flow given the relative size of the ground compared to United and Arsenal.
So there idea maybe build the stadium at lowest possible cost, get capacity to deliver more cash flow, more cash flow means better wages, better wages means better players i.e. a long term sensible approach ?
/devils advocate
It is funny how people continually knock Man Utd for spending big when 6 of our current 1st team squad cost under £6m each (Brown, Neville,Giggs,Scholes,Vidic, Evra) - thats regular 1st team players, not incl the ones just coming through.
Im the first to admit its rare for any player - let alone 3 (oe possibly 4, as Brown could still possibly stay) - to remain at the same club for their whole career, of course it looks like Carra and Stevie could do the same, but this does get glossed over all too easily
I honestly dont think Benitez is capable of delivering the league for whatever reason, whether its personnel or tactics or a combination of both (the latter most likely imo) - he seems like a great manager in general and a briliant Cup manager and while he won LL while in spain the EPL requirements are clearly too different
Im the first to admit its rare for any player - let alone 3 (oe possibly 4, as Brown could still possibly stay) - to remain at the same club for their whole career, of course it looks like Carra and Stevie could do the same, but this does get glossed over all too easily
I honestly dont think Benitez is capable of delivering the league for whatever reason, whether its personnel or tactics or a combination of both (the latter most likely imo) - he seems like a great manager in general and a briliant Cup manager and while he won LL while in spain the EPL requirements are clearly too different
You mean Dubai International Capital
Whether they are going to be good for the club i don't know but surely they can't be as bad as Hicks is.
They certainly are after us as an investment but not in the same way as Hicks and Gillett. The americans interest is just about making a fairly short-term profit where as DIC was set up to promote Dubai and to make Dubai non-reliant on oil in the long-term. You just have to look at the companies they invested in, HSBC and Sony to name just 2. They're investing in globally recognised companies which will provide a steady long-term investment not a quick buck.
The more i read up and think about the Yanks investment it seems clear that they will sell at some point in the near future and that has been there plan all along. This £350m loan they're taking out now, regardless of whether its put on the club or secured personally makes no difference as at the minute Liverpool are making next to no profit so if the Yanks want to keep the club they are going to have to pay the repayments (around £45m per year) themselves untill the club starts making serious money (in other words untill the stadium is built). Even before they can build the stadium they are going to have to borrow at least another £175m (thats presuming they sell the naming rights) which will mean another ~£20m in repayments.
Now as an investment proposition it makes sense as the value of the club and future profits when the stadium is completed far outweigh the initial outlay. However i don't think the Yanks have the cash (Gillett's wealth in particular is supposed to be tied up in nearly completely in assets) to meet these repayments. If thats the case then either they sell now or shortly after the refinance (most likely imo), sell other assets they have to fund the repayments (possible but unlikely) or lose the club to the bank and lose whatever personal funds they secured the loan with (0.001% chance of that happening).
Even if the last of the 3 possibilities were to happen it's amazingly unlikely that we'd be in a Leeds situation. DIC are seemingly intent on buying us and if were to go bust they'd be able to get us for next to nothing. But thats not going to happen as if there was a situation where the yanks couldn't pay then they'd sell up as they would lose a degree of there own cash plus any profit selling the club would make them.
Soldato
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I've said it before, the whole problem with the Yanks has overshadowed one of the real problems we've got, and thats the teams performance this season. Its simply not good enough, and 95% of that is down to Benitez.
The board room problem is highly worrying for me as a fan, and I want it sorted out as quickly as possibly, but I'm not with those fans who're simply shouting out blind support for Benitez without actually looking at what he's doing. Its like they're not even looking at the football at all.
Benitez this season has been AWFUL. He's simply failed as a manager. From the players he's choosing to use, his complaining, the tactics, rotation and total lack of people-management. He's got a team full of capable to world-class players, and he simply doesn't know how to use them or rally them.
I'm as upset as any Liverpool fan, but I think a lot of our fans need to understand that there isn't just 1 problem at the club, there are 2 equally disturbing problems. Some people need to step back and look at the bigger picture and not just jump on the shouting bandwagon.
I agree with everything you say, getting to 2 CL finals in 3 years has blinkered the vast majority of fans and it upsets me to see our once great club turning into a laughing stock