18 year old + M5 and 5 friends =

Meridian said:
I'm reminded of the old RAF saying: "A superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgement to avoid those situations which would require the use of his superior skill."


This was a failure of judgement, not skill, and judgement is nearly always (but not always) improved by age. I would guess that sheer driving skill actually probably decreases with age from about 21, as reflexes slow. So if it was skill that matters, not judgement, then you'd expect death rates to rise steadily with age. Of course, as we know, it starts high and then drops slowly. Because drivers learn from their mistakes, if they live long enough - and that's what experience is.

Obviously having both is best, if you have to choose, take experience every time.


M
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Great post :/, it's incredible the distance you travel at 100mph+. A 2-3 mile runway suddenly gets very short! I've been in several m5s at over 150mph on the ring and the ground they cover is stupefying relative to the distance you think you have covered!!!!!!

You only have to watch the episodes of top gear and see the massive banners they have to tell JC and the guys to break on their high speed runs to get a flavor for how tricky it is to judge things like that.

At night they didn't stand much of a chance :(
 
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Pity the driver of the 2008 M5 did not read & pay heed to the above.

Expect the lawyers soon chaps... :eek:;)
 
Meridian said:
I'm reminded of the old RAF saying: "A superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgement to avoid those situations which would require the use of his superior skill."


This was a failure of judgement, not skill, and judgement is nearly always (but not always) improved by age. I would guess that sheer driving skill actually probably decreases with age from about 21, as reflexes slow. So if it was skill that matters, not judgement, then you'd expect death rates to rise steadily with age. Of course, as we know, it starts high and then drops slowly. Because drivers learn from their mistakes, if they live long enough - and that's what experience is.

Obviously having both is best, if you have to choose, take experience every time.

M
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Your reflexes start to slow between 27 and 32, I agree that he messed up big time cause he didn't know any better, still if he had more skill through experiance he would have had more chance to get himself out of trouble.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Your reflexes start to slow between 27 and 32, I agree that he messed up big time cause he didn't know any better, still if he had more skill through experiance he would have had more chance to get himself out of trouble.
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As far as I can see he was driving in a straight line and went off the end of the runway. I can't see how any skill would have saved him? The experience to measure out a braking point might though.


M
 
Age has a massive part to do with driving skill

I have had an e36 M3 and a cam'd chipped race catted e46 M3 with 370ish bhp and used to drive them hard, drifting corners etc didn't phase me nor did stupid speeds(detristricted), throw into that several performance bikes zx10r ect and one could say I had some experience and very fast reactions.

Was a good driver? Well I had some skill but that didn't make me a good driver
Now just 3 years older, engaged to the women I love who is 6 months pregnant and NOW I would say I was a good driver.

80mph is where I stop on a clear motorway, I leave double the required braking distance I pride myself in smooth driving with loads of road planning to make good fluid progress without braking all the time (the misses hates the belt pulling into her bump).

I enjoy driveing so much more, the old Range Rover is fast enough and uber comfey and safe for my presious cargo.

Age brings a different mind set,

young: good driving = handling at speed, controlling crazy slides etc.

Old: good driving = smooth safe driving, and the avoidance of hairy situations so you don't need to mange anything

LOL man I sound old now :p
 
So how fast would an e60 M5 have had to have been going to still fly 200ft after the driver apparently tried to brake, and I'd imagine, hard?
 
[TW]Fox;10997329 said:
68mph at the end of the Runway apparently.
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Missed that.

Seems he was so very close to getting away with it, well, with his life....
The kid lived there and had probably done that many times already, but, I'd imagine, crucially, on his own. Add the weight of 4 extra people and things went badly wrong.
Being young, he didn't take into account the fact that 4 extra people make a big difference to a car's performance in this case, braking performance. That's something you really only get with experience, experience this kid had not gained.

It takes a few scares with people on board before you realise just how differently a car - any car - handles when full of passengers.

Travolta must not have been home because if he was he would have been able to save their lives like a good scientologist.
 
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Vertigo1 said:
Indeed. Call me callous if you like but I find it hard to have much sympathy with idiots like this. You might as well have sympathy with someone who jumped off a cliff expecting to live.
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Sad to say I feel the same too, he got what was coming and his friend was stupid to get into the car with him.

Getting into a 500bhp car (who belongs to someone else) for the purpose of the 18 year old kid with no experience in that car purely to show off.....stupid.
 
Steve said:
Age has a massive part to do with driving skill

I have had an e36 M3 and a cam'd chipped race catted e46 M3 with 370ish bhp and used to drive them hard, drifting corners etc didn't phase me nor did stupid speeds(detristricted), throw into that several performance bikes zx10r ect and one could say I had some experience and very fast reactions.

Was a good driver? Well I had some skill but that didn't make me a good driver
Now just 3 years older, engaged to the women I love who is 6 months pregnant and NOW I would say I was a good driver.

80mph is where I stop on a clear motorway, I leave double the required braking distance I pride myself in smooth driving with loads of road planning to make good fluid progress without braking all the time (the misses hates the belt pulling into her bump).

I enjoy driveing so much more, the old Range Rover is fast enough and uber comfey and safe for my presious cargo.

Age brings a different mind set,

young: good driving = handling at speed, controlling crazy slides etc.

Old: good driving = smooth safe driving, and the avoidance of hairy situations so you don't need to mange anything

LOL man I sound old now :p
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I can't remember which, but the Times Driven section ran a great interview with an ex-F1 driver (then in his 60s). He still tests a load of gt2 cars and occasionally competes. They asked him what he liked most about road driving and he pointed out the same things you have listed. Carrying his grand kids round smoothly, safely and economically :D. His favorite car was a nissan prairie........ :D

At the end of the day a lot of people think they are gods gift and until tested they will continue to think so. I fell in to this bucket and paid the price writing off my dream car in the process. Fortunately no one was hurt and it opened my eyes to driver training courses and just how big the gap between my driving and "good driving" was.
 
Tom|Nbk said:
So he must have just underbraked by a few seconds?
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if he planned on stopping with about 3 feet to spare maybe.

normally when coming down from 150+ i allow myself a little bit of extra space to be on the safe side!

adding 4 other people to the car will effect braking, but not to the point where he would have stopped fine without them, but with them goes off the end at 68mph.

i have done laps of the nurburgring both on my own and with 3 passengers in the car. found myself missing the apexes on the first few corners because i hadnt anticipated the extra braking distance. o.k. so this wasnt from 150, more like speeds between 60-120, but i missed the apexes rather than went past them 70mph too fast!

i would put this down to complete inexperience. anyone with sense / experience would leave more than enough space to break unless something happened when he was braking.

reminds me of what a friends friend did aged 16. he thought it would be clever to take his dads 330, only to drive it up and down the driveway mind. he soon decided it would be a good idea to see how fast he could get the car up to just on the driveway. i think he managed about 25mph but didnt really calculate the braking distance very well (no experience and far too cocky!) and didnt quite stop in time for the house. put it through the kitchen wall! Dad was not best pleased! :(
 
TomO said:
reminds me of what a friends friend did aged 16. he thought it would be clever to take his dads 330, only to drive it up and down the driveway mind. he soon decided it would be a good idea to see how fast he could get the car up to just on the driveway. i think he managed about 25mph but didnt really calculate the braking distance very well (no experience and far too cocky!) and didnt quite stop in time for the house. put it through the kitchen wall! Dad was not best pleased! :(
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I have a feeling people like that are taking their experience from Gran Turismo/PGR4 thinking you can get away with the same driving in reality.
 
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