Man of Honour
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Fair enough, if so then my original point remains, I don't think he's worth £18m, as said £9m at the most.
Is Mascherano worth £18 million ?
- Thread starter rayb74
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Fair enough, if so then my original point remains, I don't think he's worth £18m, as said £9m at the most.
Soldato
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Without a doubt if it is 18m inc wages then its an absolute steal
Mikel was a strange one as I think Chelsea had to pay Man Utd £12m plus another fee to the other club, but either way I dont think it was as much as £18m all told -eedit and if Mascherano is roughly the same price I would have Mascherano every time without fail
Thought you included Anderson, but you obviously didnt
it is hard in general because so many deals these days for the top clubs depend on appearances and caps etc but you never know how much the split is with the initial payment
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nothing in the world will convince me it's 18million including wages. 18million is the going rate for a top class central midfielder in the premiership these days and there is no way on earth msi couldn't have got more than 8-9million for him by touting him elsewhere. it wasn't that paul tomkins dude by any chance who posted that originally was it?
and that's not liverpool bashing, i've said 18million was about right for him but there is no way you got him for what you sold sissoko to juve for, no chance at all.
and that's not liverpool bashing, i've said 18million was about right for him but there is no way you got him for what you sold sissoko to juve for, no chance at all.
No it wasn't Tomkins. The guy who posted it has posted many stories well before they came out in the press etc. Im not sure whether what he said is right but you have to remember that the fee was agreed last January when Mascherano wasn't even in the West Ham side. There's the £2m for the loan too which would bring it to £10-12m and last January £10-12m would've been about right for him. Liverpool won't release any details so i doubt we'll ever find out for sure.
That doesn't really matter much anymore though, since players over a certain age (23 or so) can leave for free when their contract expires. It's not like the old days when signing young players was good because you knew either you would get 10 years out of them or a big transfer fee. Sometimes you get players who will be signed and then leave long for nothing before retiring (say, Edu of Arsenal)
To me it doesn't matter if he's worth it or not, I'm just glad we're getting him. I would have been really upset if we let him go. If United would pay that much for Hargreaves then Mascherano is worth at LEAST the same amount.
He's a beast in midfield and his attitude on the pitch is something the rest of the team need to take note of. I think in a few years, when he gains experience he would make a great captain.
But as someone mentioned previously, player prices no longer go by ability alone, its the crazy market that drives the cost. I think that the purchase of these expensive players (Torres + Masch) its showing that Liverpool are actually starting to reach out to attain quality, instead of caving in and buying 4 squad players with that money. And that has been one Liverpool's biggest problems- managers forced to get quantity over quality.
Now we need that same quality at left back, right mid and another quality striker... and in my point of view, another manager or at least new coaching staff, we just need someone to work with the team and bring them together. i.e, Pako. Leave Benitez for the European games.
He's a beast in midfield and his attitude on the pitch is something the rest of the team need to take note of. I think in a few years, when he gains experience he would make a great captain.
But as someone mentioned previously, player prices no longer go by ability alone, its the crazy market that drives the cost. I think that the purchase of these expensive players (Torres + Masch) its showing that Liverpool are actually starting to reach out to attain quality, instead of caving in and buying 4 squad players with that money. And that has been one Liverpool's biggest problems- managers forced to get quantity over quality.
Now we need that same quality at left back, right mid and another quality striker... and in my point of view, another manager or at least new coaching staff, we just need someone to work with the team and bring them together. i.e, Pako. Leave Benitez for the European games.
I'll keep it short and sweet, YES!
He's an international and world-class defensive midfielder. Our problem is that Gerrard doesn't seem to have the same willingness to go forward despite the way he should feel secure leaving Masch to defend the counter attack. Yes 18mill is ridiculous but thats the prices these days, i'd be very surprised if that fee included any wages and the like.
He's an international and world-class defensive midfielder. Our problem is that Gerrard doesn't seem to have the same willingness to go forward despite the way he should feel secure leaving Masch to defend the counter attack. Yes 18mill is ridiculous but thats the prices these days, i'd be very surprised if that fee included any wages and the like.
I dont think any of the players mentioned in this thread, Hargreaves, Carrick, Mikel and certainly Mascherano are worth anywhere near 18 million, because if we are brutally honest none of them are that good.
They cant hold a candle to the likes of Keane and Vieira.
I would trade all 4 of them for one of that pair.
They cant hold a candle to the likes of Keane and Vieira.
I would trade all 4 of them for one of that pair.
When you compare it to the £16m Henry went for, then no - but looking at the amount people are paying for other midfielders then maybe. I think he is over rated though - a good player, but not world class. He wouldnt be 100% starter in Arsenal, Man Utd or Chelsea.
I'd start him ahead of hargreaves or carrick anyday though carrick is quite different. He wouldn't suit arsenal's playing style so thats a no brainer and although i hate chelsea i love makele, but in a season's time or mybe two masch will have surpassed him. He gets on the argentinian side and they're easily one of the best teams in the world....so to say he isn't world class is well...wrong.
£18m including wages over 4 years sounds pretty reasonable to me. At even a modest salary of £40k/week, that represents a sub-£10m transfer fee including signing on fee.
Most established international midfielders/forwards for a top5 nation will transfer for in excess of £10m when joining a big rich club these days, so it is market rates.
Most established international midfielders/forwards for a top5 nation will transfer for in excess of £10m when joining a big rich club these days, so it is market rates.
Ah - Sorry didnt read that it included 4 years wages; if that is the case then its not too bad. Assuming he is on something like 50k a week (speculation++) that means the sign on fee is £8m give or take.
Shicky - there are a lot of assumptions and guess work in your statement. So until there is an ounce of proof in your statement, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say you are wrong. He has been a good player this season, but just that. So I'm going to base my opinion on that.
Shicky - there are a lot of assumptions and guess work in your statement. So until there is an ounce of proof in your statement, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say you are wrong. He has been a good player this season, but just that. So I'm going to base my opinion on that.
This isn't certain, just a rumour.
Even with it being £18m he's still worth it, he's been amazing since joining us and when you compare it with players of similar or less quality going for roughly the same then its perfectly acceptable.
£18mill incl wages would be ok I reckon. He is young so assuming he is in it for the long term and not looking for a big money move to Spain/Italy in a few years time Liverpool will get good service out of him.
A bit unfair to compare them to two of the greatest CMs you will probably ever see. Those two were a bit special really and apart from maybe Essien nobody else even comes close.
A bit unfair to compare them to two of the greatest CMs you will probably ever see. Those two were a bit special really and apart from maybe Essien nobody else even comes close.
No there not as good as Keane and Viera, but if they are the best players out out there in their position then they are worth top dollar.
Caporegime
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you have to really look at those figures, first up carrick and hargreaves well lets see, english player = market value + 130% to buy, neither were worth ANYTHING close to those valuations. Essien was at the heart of chelsea's overpaying for everyone and massively outbidding everyone for the simple sake of it, his price was pumped up BECAUSE it was chelsea wanting him, his value is completely ridiculous and had chelsea not had a billionaire owner he would have gone for 10-15mil.
makelele is the ONLY world class player listed there. when someone's one every big cup there is he IS worth more and he was/is the best player in the world in his position, his value was worth it and SHOULD let you realise why the other players are overpriced. he's won the champs league with real, and i think another club didn't he? or he got to more finals than most and his clubs just simply always do well, he's been a huge player in squads that won the world and euro cups, there are very few players that have the CV he boasts or the cup achievements international or domestic. if you haven't won what he has you aren't worth anywhere near £17 mil.
Hargreaves is crap, he was completely and utterly ineffective, again, against spurs and taking him off and putting on "real" midfielders who don't constistantly give the ball away led to man u dominating possession in the 2nd half. almost all the poor performances this year have included hargreaves. carrick isn't as defensive, but man u still look more solid.
you can be strong, a great tackler and a great positional player which can all lead to being great defensively but the STRONGEST denfensive quality is not giving the ball away, thats the biggest reason hargreaves fails massively, he's also not a great tackler or great positionally. carrick is better because he gives the ball away less and is much much better going forwards.
AS for Macherano, get over it, he is supposed to be that player that stops liverpool being bombarded and giving away goals, how good have pool been defensively this year? sucky, do liverpool look invincible at the back? no, does he do way to many , lets call them "alan smith" tackles? yes. is he mostly a violent little git with a lot of workrate behind him, yes. is he world class, nothing about his play suggests that to me. Gerrard seems to drop off a lot more with Macherano than with other players, leading me to believe both manager, and Gerrard think its necessary for him to play more defensively with macherano in the squad, anyone care to guess at reasons that the manager/main player would do that if he's such a good defensive player.
Hargreaves and carrick are english, thats why they cost so much. If FIFA start to limited the foreigners then it might look very different. Carrick was also a rush buy.
It's A LOT of money for a club that isn't rolling in it and isn't delivering on the pitch. Its one thing to spend £18 to improve a team, but right now they are spending £18 to keep a team together that is struggling to compete with Everton and Villa.