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Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:42

Tefal said:
and how would they do those things you say with out threatening you with them first which would mean that they would have to make it public = riot impeachment failed election etc.

And please keep the personal attacks to a minimum, wouldn't want to see you sent on a holiday.

How would they do it? Pretty simple really.

They'd have all your information on the centralised database (already being suggested in Parliament). It'll contain everything about you, bank account details, blood type, hair colour, bra size, address, company you work for.

Then they delete your account in the database and you vanish.

You try and pay with your chip/card, "sorry sir, that account doesn't exist".

You then loose the ability to eat, live, go to work and so on.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:44

Tefal said:
but these chips have a maximum range of something like 2 meters, hardly useful for large scale tracking as well as being almost impossible to pick a person out of a crowd.

Have you been to a large Tesco recently and seen the "CCTV" stand. Go take a look.

Every shopping trolley has a RFID chip on the front and back wheels. They track you around the shop.

Each chip has a unique number.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:44

Teki187 said:
How would they do it? Pretty simple really.

They'd have all your information on the centralised database (already being suggested in Parliament). It'll contain everything about you, bank account details, blood type, hair colour, bra size, address, company you work for.

Then they delete your account in the database and you vanish.

You try and pay with your chip/card, "sorry sir, that card doesn't exist".

You then loose the ability to eat, live, go to work and so on.

yes but that's not what i asked, and would only work as punishment not as control as for it to prevent you from going to the protest you must be first told in advance what would happen to you which would result in riot etc etc.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:45

Teki187 said:
Have you been to a large Tesco recently and seen the "CCTV" stand. Go take a look.

Every shopping trolley has a RFID chip on the front and back wheels. They track you around the shop.

Each chip has a unique number.

Are you talking about those big powered chips as the ones that are safe and small enough to be put inside a human are pretty limited to be safe.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:46

Tefal said:
yes but that's not what i asked, and would only work as punishment not as control as for it to prevent you from going to the protest you must be first told in advance what would happen to you which would result in riot etc etc.

Of course it acts as a control method.

If you found out a mate went to a anti government protest and had there chip "switched off" and was unable to provide for his family, then word would soon spread. That would prevent you.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:47

Tefal said:
Are you talking about those big powered chips as the ones that are safe and small enough to be put inside a human are pretty limited to be safe.

No, i was using Tesco as an example of how RFID tracking works. Not as an example of the human implant chip size.

God do i have to spell everything out to you?

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:48

Teki187 said:
Of course it acts as a control method.

If you found out a mate went to a anti government protest and had there chip "switched off" and was unable to provide for his family, then word would soon spread. That would prevent you.

So what your saying is it would only work after the protest and then be limited purely to those who have gone to the protest, meaning the police investigation would turn up a surprising correlation, which would go to the papers which would result in riot etc etc etc.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:49

Teki187 said:
No, i was using Tesco as an example of how RFID tracking works. Not as an example of the human implant chip size.

God do i have to spell everything out to you?

well as we're talking about human implant chips so yes you would need to explain to me how you plan to implant such a large and powerfully chip into a person and then still install tracking systems every 20m and get this through and kind of health and safety tribunal.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:49

Tefal said:
So what your saying is it would only work after the protest and then be limited purely to those who have gone to the protest, meaning the police investigation would turn up a surprising correlation, which would go to the papers which would result in riot etc etc etc.

Wouldnt need to work after the riot, it could happen before. Stop focusing on the protesting EXAMPLE.

Do you think the media reports on unbiased news? Hell im guessing you watch Fox.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:51

Tefal said:
well as we're talking about human implant chips so yes you would need to explain to me how you plan to implant such a large and powerfully chip into a person and then still install tracking systems every 20m and get this through and kind of health and safety tribunal.

Do we not already have CCTV nearly every 20-30m in London? Just stick a box up a pole, is not that hard.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:53

Teki187 said:
Wouldnt need to work after the riot, it could happen before. Stop focusing on the protesting EXAMPLE.

Do you think the media reports on unbiased news? Hell im guessing you watch Fox.

err so your saying they would spread the word that anti government activities wind up with your chip being deactivated, by deactivating those of peoples who take part in anti government activities after they've done so (as other wise how would they know), which would mean the correlation would be found in the investigation, and then reported and journalists LOVE big stories like that, as they sell for millions, so it gets reported, huge investigation follows gov people responsible fail hard or riot civil war etc etc ensue.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:53

As for the range issue.

"Unlike its predecessor, the barcode, an RFID tag's data can be extracted from afar - sometimes from hundreds of metres away - by radio-reading devices, and the technology is already widely used."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6389581.stm

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:54

Teki187 said:
Do we not already have CCTV nearly every 20-30m in London? Just stick a box up a pole, is not that hard.

wouldn't work in buildings, or cars probably, and again to get them to 20m + your talking tesco trolley style things embedded in you not something smaller than a paracetamol in between your thumb and index finger.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:55

Tefal said:
err so your saying they would spread the word that anti government activities wind up with your chip being deactivated, by deactivating those of peoples who take part in anti government activities after they've done so (as other wise how would they know), which would mean the correlation would be found in the investigation, and then reported and journalists LOVE big stories like that, as they sell for millions, so it gets reported, huge investigation follows gov people responsible fail hard or riot civil war etc etc ensue.

Your looking at it from the wrong perspective.

The Government are already talking about a National ID system and Centralising our information.

If there already talking about that, then why would they not be talking about punishment methods?

The government would create a new law saying you couldn't damage your ID card/chip etc and any protest against it would be a criminal offence. Thus the media wouldn't bother because its just another story about a guy who broke his ID card and got arrested.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:56

Teki187 said:
As for the range issue.

"Unlike its predecessor, the barcode, an RFID tag's data can be extracted from afar - sometimes from hundreds of metres away - by radio-reading devices, and the technology is already widely used."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6389581.stm

They have one major issue, however - they need an external antenna to work, and the smallest antenna developed so far is about 80 times bigger than the tags.

Err don't think they going to work if i have to have an antenna sticking out me hand.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:56

Tefal said:
wouldn't work in buildings, or cars probably, and again to get them to 20m + your talking tesco trolley style things embedded in you not something smaller than a paracetamol in between your thumb and index finger.

Answered that with the post right above it.

Teki187 · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:57

Tefal said:
Err don't think they going to work if i have to have an antenna sticking out me hand.

Jesus christ, stop nit picking information.

That was in regards to the smaller then a human hair RFID chip.

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:57

Teki187 said:
The government would create a new law saying you couldn't damage your ID card/chip etc and any protest against it would be a criminal offence. Thus the media wouldn't bother because its just another story about a guy who broke his ID card and got arrested.

because this law would never be passed, remember the government isn't one body, they can't even get their own party to vote for their laws half the time, and this law would be unfeasable because of the likely hood of cards etc getting damaged frequently, and it would also be destroyed in the press, and such no mp would vote for it as it would be PR suicide.

Azza · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:58

Arnt these chips going to cost us, the tax payer a silly amount of money? Even more so than an ID card scheme?

Tefal · 15 Feb 2008 at 10:59

Azza said:
Arnt these chips going to cost us, the tax payer a silly amount of money? Even more so than an ID card scheme?

one of the reasons no one outside of commercial entities use them, and because an implant would be a lot harder to get through the government with the PR problem it would cause for mP's