Testing round up from Hondas private test this week - http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=34049
F1 2007/2008 Winter Testing and Rumours
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Regarding Button - unless he gets anywhere near James Hunt levels of playing the field, driving while under the influence and other general lunacy, then you can't really say he's being a bad boy
Until he gets anywhere near the James Hunt levels of being Champion can we say he is any good.
Slightly odd that you should say that, given how long it took Germany and France to produce championship winning drivers in F1. The early days were dominated by Argentinians (Fangio) and Italians (Farina and Ascari). Then it was a Brit, an Aussie twice, an American, Brits for a few years, Aussies again, Brits, an Austrian posthumously, a Brit again, a Brazilian, a Brit again, a Brazilian, an Austrian, a Brit, the Austrian again, an American, a South African, an Australian, a Brazilian, a Finn, a Brazilian, an Austrian and FINALLY we get to a Frenchman! And Germany had to wait nearly a decade longer.
We'll know how good The Messiah™ truly is if he ends up in a McLaren that is a bit less special than normal (like an '05 Ferrari off the back of their '04 season).
You're acting as if that is something to be proud of.
Button seems happy to be in a mediocre team that accepts mediocrity as an ethos.
Do you think Alonso or Schumacher would ever be found fighting for 15th place? NOPE. If they were, they would be looking for a competitve drive. Just as Senna, Prost and Mansell would've done before them.
I can only hope that Hamilton turns out to be different, though knowing our luck, when he is ready to dominate for the next 10yrs, he will change nationality.
Top drivers are super competitve people and will always manage to find themselves in the best cars, allowing them to put their skills to the best possible use. I'm not saying that Button is a top driver, but driving a Honda, we will never get to find out. Perhaps he lacks confidence in his own ability and is scared to find out how he would compare to the Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton, if he raced alongside them, should he make a move for a drive in a top car? If he moved to a team like McLaren, for example, it could break him, if Hamilton outscores him heavily during the course of the season (which I think he would).
One thing I have noticed and that is that the British public in general, are more accepting of sporting mediocrity and quite like being the underdog?
Anyone remember Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards?
Hunt benefited from being in a car that 'Emmo' Fittipaldi had sorted before buggering off to start up a team with his brother - there was no chance of him actually testing and working on improving the design, he was notorious for hating test driving. One of the McLaren bigwigs at the time (think it was Alistair Caldwell?) reckoned that in hindsight they'd have hired a dedicated test driver and just let Hunt loose on race weekends. If they'd done that, he might have had more than one title to his name.
Yeah, but that decade long wait for Germany was worth every bit. He went on to break every single record in F1.
The key thing for Hamilton was that he had a great opening season. All the top guys, including Schumacher, have been quick right from the start. They havent needed a few seasons to get used to F1.
I still think that Alonso is the daddy of F1, but I'm hoping Hamilton will go onto have a Schumacheresque career and possibly break some of his records.
Maybe so, but it was still a long time coming.
Would we have been saying that he had a great opening season had he been in something like, oh I don't know, a Minardi? That would be where Fernando "Petulant Twit" Alonso started out, after all....
Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I just can't escape the fact that The Messiah™ started his F1 career in one of the top two cars. Alright, I know a certain Damon Hill ran his first full season in the top car as well. Which probably drops a nuke on my point, given that Damon wasn't exactly challenging for the title despite having that car. That said, he was up against Prost in that team, and Senna just down the pitlane - and for all his undoubted talent, the Petulant One™ is no Senna or Prost.
No, he isn't.
I'd love to see it happen. I don't think it will, but I'd love to see it.
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Button paid a fortune to leave a struggling Williams team and move to a team he thought would give him the best opportunity available to him at the time. It upset a lot of people that he essentially broke a contract with Williams, but in hindsight Williams haven't exactly shone in the last few years. So you're suggesting he should now renege on his contract with Honda too?
Hunt did win a race in the Hesketh (Dutch Grand Prix) and finished 4th in the championship before he went to Maclaren.
Button will struggle this year. Honda may be right that there car has been developed and improved since testing in time for Australia but so will everybody elses car. Honda have generally been a poor team since coming back to F1 apart from the short period Dave Richards was there. This season will be no different.
You're acting as if that is something to be proud of.
Button seems happy to be in a mediocre team that accepts mediocrity as an ethos.
Do you think Alonso or Schumacher would ever be found fighting for 15th place? NOPE. If they were, they would be looking for a competitve drive. Just as Senna, Prost and Mansell would've done before them.
Oh give the Honda/Button bashing a rest
. You suggested he was just in it for the fame and fortune... I was pointing out that he looks like he has some passion for racing again.Alonso may not be fighting for 15th place this season but i'd best surprised if he makes it onto the podium more than twice. So will he! And he knew that when leaving McLaren. Thats why it took him so long to move back to Renault when he wanted a better drive. But in the absense of a race winning car you can bet your last pound that he will fight for the next place up the same as all the drivers.
So stop with the Anti Honda/Button fest at least until you have some results from this coming season to base your ramblings on.
He did. Odd, that. He was okay with testing enough to get the Hesketh 308 that far up the grid, but seemed to lose his appetite for it as soon as he joined McLaren.
Either that, or Doc Postlethwaite hit upon a great design straight out of the box for Hesketh....
Mansell? First race Austria 1980, took until 1984 for him to show flashes of good form when he finally got a decent Lotus. Didn't really start to show his talent until his 1985 move to Williams when he was mixing as one of the gang of four and regularly beating Rosberg. Going up against Prost, Senna and Piquet in their prime was a hell of a challenge.
Deleted member 11679
Deleted member 11679
I think Button in '09, there was just something about that first win of his that made me believe he can be a world champion.
As for this season, too close to call but I think Heiki will be more of a threat than he is currently being given credit for in the media.
As for this season, too close to call but I think Heiki will be more of a threat than he is currently being given credit for in the media.
I would very much like to "lose" at life as much as him please.
LOL, same.
Yep. Any top sportsman has an overwhelming desire to win. This is what drives them. To be the best and to show it off. We see this in football, when a team isnt doing so well, but a single player is playing out of his skin. Generally, he wont stay in that team for long and he will move to a top team. We see this in F1 - Senna moving to McLaren when they had a great car, then moving to Williams when Williams were top. Prost did this, as did Mansell. Every top sportsman wants to win and display his talents.
The only exceptions to the above would be Schumacher who moved from a top team (Bennetton), to Ferrari. Though, he was supremely confident in his own abilities to make up the difference. I think there was also a huge financial incentive. Damon Hill also made a move downwards by moving away from Williams after winning the title. This was probably down to money.
Part of being a top driver is to be fast and another part is to have the abillity to work behind the scenes to get yourself into a top drive. Prost, another great, was the master at this.
With his current laid back, journeyman attitude, Button wont be winning any races. If he was ambitious, he would've been asking his agent to put the word out to other teams that he was looking for a move to a top team.
Indeed he did. But most other rookies would've been unable to finish 1pt away from the title. IMO he had an outstanding season, which is comparable to something that Schumacher wouldve done in his early days.
Mansell was the exception. He was a late developer who performed best in 91, 92 and 93 (Indycar).
You have to remember that in todays F1 it is 95% car, 5% driver that determines the success.
He is just unlucky that he drives a car that is just too slow.