I am disgusted

m4cc45 said:
Talk about comparing two things from different ends of the spectrum.

To work in a council requires that much devotion and study? Do they regularly save lives each day? Or do they sit on there fat, lazy ***** and delegate or 'have lunch'. I remember reading of that one fat *** who was moaning about paying parking charges because she was a councilor! Sorry but this really gets on my ****!


M.
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I have know quite a few GP's that sit on their fat lazy backsides and just do the bare minimum to treat their patients. Sure they had to a lot of study to become a GP but you have to study and work hard to become a top level manager.

It's all about perception. Most people have an idealized impression of those who work in the NHS and an undervalued opinion of those who work for the council. Both perceptions are wrong. There is as much chaff in the NHS as there is in local council and the government.

Given my considerable experience of the NHS as a patient I can say it is the nurses that get my vote for being the hardest workers yet they get paid the least. A lot of consultants don't do fridays as they are playing golf. 250K for a 4 day week, eh?

News headlines never focus on the good councils and the good managers as that doesn't sell stories so people get a biased view of what it is actually like.

[TW said:
Fox]If you want DECENT management at this sort of level you must pay the wages that will attract them, otherwise they will simply get jobs in the private sector and you'll be left with the sort of duffer who is happy with immense responsibility at low salary.

Being a Chief Exec is not a difficult, easy or unstressful job. These salaries mean that skilled people are likely to apply to the Council in addition to big business.
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You don't just walk out of school into a job as a Chief Exec you know..
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Exactly. Just remember that NHS=Good, Local Government=Bad and you will be OK!
 
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m4cc45 said:
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There's always rumours of how people get the jobs in the council as well. Because of how hard it is to fire people they 'promote' them meaning that there are 'rubbish' people in senior positions.

Sorry but I disagree that everyone in that position is a highly capable and deserving of a 200K+ salary - especially with the massive pay rises they get whe it is supposedly capped.
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Do you work for Local Government or now anybody who does? I can assure you that it doesn't work like you say it does.

Again, that paragraph applies to a lot of GP's but they don't get the same anger directed at them despite the fact that they got a massive payrise too.

You're operating on one set of rules for one skilled profession (Doctors) and a different set for another skilled profession (Senior Council Managers)
 
[TW]Fox;11385603 said:
If you want DECENT management at this sort of level you must pay the wages that will attract them, otherwise they will simply get jobs in the private sector and you'll be left with the sort of duffer who is happy with immense responsibility at low salary.

Being a Chief Exec is not a difficult, easy or unstressful job. These salaries mean that skilled people are likely to apply to the Council in addition to big business.
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You can not apply Private Sector rules to the Public Sector. The Public Sector, through its very nature, has the added element of Ethics and Responsibility.

This money is not just random money generated from sales, but people's income being whisked away without choice. This money has doubled in 10 years, with no justifyable explanation. CEO's salaries have risen well above the 2% limit set by the government, with no justifyable explanation.

These salaries are not linked to Council Performance at all, they are randomly applied with no justifyable explanation.

The Public Sector must be under more scrutiny, must provide justifications, and must apply the principle of fairness.
 
LordSplodge said:
Do you work for Local Government or now anybody who does? I can assure you that it doesn't work like you say it does.

Again, that paragraph applies to a lot of GP's but they don't get the same anger directed at them despite the fact that they got a massive payrise too.

You're operating on one set of rules for one skilled profession (Doctors) and a different set for another skilled profession (Senior Council Managers)
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I know a lot of people who work in the Council at varying levels. This is going back to when I lived in S-o-T over 6 years ago so things may have changed slightly. The company I used to work for had regular meetings with them in relation to several policies. The main image i remember was one of condemnation. The 'we know best' attitude. Yes some of them could talk very elaquently on several matters but you knew as soon as they went out of the door everything would be forgotten or shelved.

I'd still give more money on someone who saves mine or anyone elses life. Yes nurses are given a hard time - and there are lazy Medical Practitioners out there, you get it in every position. With doctors though you can simply move surgeries if you are not happy with the service.

I can't believe how anyone would say that they don't object to paying more council tax? Do you really think they're justified in taking that from you? Do you get a better service? Do these people who earn 200K+ really give you good value for money?



M.
 
Are you joking me... So, we pay for people to sit and do nothing all day in coucil houses chavving it up benifits, we pay for the MP's second houses and lifestyles, and we pay for the councils 100k a year wage.

Lovely,

Least i know where my money goes, complete muppets.

This country just takes the ****, they take advantage of hard working people like ourselves.

Totally unfair. :mad:
 
I agree that you have to pay good wages to get good people at their level and on the grand scale of money wasted this isn't bad.

Don't worry about them, worry about the road line painters on £60k, after with a bit of overtime.
 
m4cc45 said:
I can't believe how anyone would say that they don't object to paying more council tax? Do you really think they're justified in taking that from you? Do you get a better service? Do these people who earn 200K+ really give you good value for money?
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The problem with Council Tax is not with the relatively few high paid managers at the top but with the mess of middle managers and civil servants lower down that make it so inefficient that money literally bleeds out of the system.

Why in IT alone they just waste money because everything is so badly thought out and because of the many, many layers of obscuration between the bottom and the top it would need some kind of super manager to even work out what the hell is going off. Thus, in my opinion, a lot of senior council managers have a tough job just stopping the whole house of cards from falling down.

The best way would be to nuke all staff and rebuild the system from the ground up but that will never happen so it only gets worse.
 
LordSplodge said:
The problem with Council Tax is not with the relatively few high paid managers at the top but with the mess of middle managers and civil servants lower down that make it so inefficient that money literally bleeds out of the system.

Why in IT alone they just waste money because everything is so badly thought out and because of the many, many layers of obscuration between the bottom and the top it would need some kind of super manager to even work out what the hell is going off. Thus, in my opinion, a lot of senior council managers have a tough job just stopping the whole house of cards from falling down.

The best way would be to nuke all staff and rebuild the system from the ground up but that will never happen so it only gets worse.
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But surely the precedent is set by those at the top?

What is the CEO doing then that earns this amount of money? Yes I know there is a hell of a lot of red tape and I agree that there are people working in all areas of the council who need a severe kicking but the precedent has to be set by those in the senior positions.

Bin Men are my current pet hate at the moment. We moved house recently and one bin man said just chuck those boxes here and we'll get rid of them. Excellent I thought. Then another bin man come around and said we're not taking them you own a shop? you should pay for disposal. I politely told him I moved house to which he grunted. Useless ****.

Anyway back on subject. I really think the people at the top need to prove there worth. They're on 200K do they really need the extra 4%? (around 9K extra). Shouldn't they be gaining the publics trust?


M.
 
Shocking, my mate works for council, i know a local councillor well (he shagged a girl on her 16th birthday on a cruise in my room lol) and they do sod all and i work with the council. They have endless meetings which they make suggestions and propose ideas, but they know, as long as they act like they are doing something, they don't have to do a thing. The majority of it is creating a public perception of helping the community, take a look behind closed doors, it's like watching pensioners dipping biscuits in tea lol.

And annoyingly, what they say goes and they will NEVER listen to the opinions of anyone outside the circle. Why not all have payrises when you're paying yourselves?
 
m4cc45 said:
But surely the precedent is set by those at the top?

Shouldn't they be gaining the publics trust?


M.
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Yes they should but as I said the system has become so unmanageable and complex it takes all their skill just to maintain the status quo.

I think CEO's both in the Public and Private Sector should earn public trust. What about the Fat Cats in the Energy Industry having massive pay rises whilst poor people and pensioners have to chose between heat or food?
 
Private sector performance directly influences how the company does, which influences how you get paid.

Public sector, performance has no influence on your career or salary, which is based purely on time served and qualifications.
To get the sack, you REALLY have to be an ********, i mean like not turn up for a month then kick the manager in the face, even then you got a written probably lol.

Basically, promoting efficiency and innovation gives no reward for council workers, so they don't do it, simple as that.
 
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