To say you are always posting in the F1 threads I find it hard to believe you have missed this! They have even said it on ITV during races a few times.
2008 Bahrain GP - Race 3/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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To say you are always posting in the F1 threads I find it hard to believe you have missed this! They have even said it on ITV during races a few times.
Leave off him, he could have just missed it. I wouldnt blame anyone for not listening the the ITV coverage...
And its understandable about the testing. usually these mid season tests are all about current parts for this season, its rare for them to be testing stuff now that wont be used until next year. Theres also the added confusion of them testing both current and new stuff. Force India for example tested yesterday morning in the current setup, with new aero stuff for Spain, and then in the afternoon reduced downforce and stuck on slicks to do some next year testing.
And its understandable about the testing. usually these mid season tests are all about current parts for this season, its rare for them to be testing stuff now that wont be used until next year. Theres also the added confusion of them testing both current and new stuff. Force India for example tested yesterday morning in the current setup, with new aero stuff for Spain, and then in the afternoon reduced downforce and stuck on slicks to do some next year testing.
But any F1 fan will know that teams have different development schedules. Plus the bigger teams will have more people and so able to be working on both this year and next. Honda have said that after the next update ALL their dev will be on next years car. So at the moment they could be 50/50.
And the fact that next year is such a radical change, the non front running teams see this as a chance to get on jump on their rivals and move up the grid. You might see teams like Honda and Red Bull surprising a few years cause of their devotion to next year (just as an example).
And the fact that next year is such a radical change, the non front running teams see this as a chance to get on jump on their rivals and move up the grid. You might see teams like Honda and Red Bull surprising a few years cause of their devotion to next year (just as an example).
Soldato
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Ah, and the cars get even uglier, wonders will never cease.
Of course, I am an F1 fan, however, there have been no concrete plans listed regarding slick tyres. This is why I found it strange that most, if not all teams had decided to suddenly start spending their time, money and resources on testing a tyre that had not yet been ratified for use, by the FIA. This is why I asked the question, for clarification.
The answers I have received seem to suggest though, that most teams are certain that slick tyres will be used next year, though officially, this has not been confirmed.
Honda are the exception, as they have produced another car this year (though better than last year's), that isnt able to consistently score points. It therefore makes sense for such a heavily funded team to concentrate on building a car for next year that will compete for points in every GP next year.
I would've thought that the top teams this year (BMW, Ferrari, McLaren), woulc concentrate on this year's car as they can make this season a success. For most teams, this year should be more important, with the emphasis shifting to 2009, as this season ends and we move into Winter testing.
Ain't gonna happen. In the modern F1 era, the top teams always remain at the top, regardless of the rule changes. Many people on this board, for example, expected this year's rule changes to totally revamp the grid. I expected from the outset (last year) that Ferrari, McLaren and their drivers will still be the teams/drivers to beat. Though, I must say I am surprised that BMW seem to be spoiling the party, I still expect McLaren and Ferrari to finish top 2 in the constructors' title race.
This year, will be a huge season for Hamilton. If he doesnt perform this year, there will be question marks over his ability to consistently win titles and mix it with the likes of Prost, Schumacher and Senna.
When did the modern era start for you? I think we've seen some pretty major changes recently. Renault going from double championships to midfield last year and this year, Sauber rising from midfield to regular podiums, McLaren in 2004 came 5th in the constructors championship and Schumacher got 13 wins! In 2005 MS only got 1 win and less than half the points of FA.
Recent years - the modern era - has seen massive change at the top.
Well if we take it from the constructors point of view, since the turn of the millenium Ferrari have been champions six out of eight times.
It is exactly what is needed, the times can be the same but the grip behind another car is much better meaning a car can drive closer to another car and overtaking should be easier.
The cars will look so much better next year, simpler wings, no more Halfords stick on tat and slicks
It is exactly what is needed, the times can be the same but the grip behind another car is much better meaning a car can drive closer to another car and overtaking should be easier.
The cars will look so much better next year, simpler wings, no more Halfords stick on tat and slicks
That is the theory at least, along the same lines as previous years that were introduced to attempt to improve overtaking/racing, but till today, has failed.
The cars will look better next year I reckon
Except the one at Monza was still a two piece affair whereas the 2009 is just a one piece I think.
No suddenly about it. Various teams have used them at a previous test.
Force India were running a 2009 spec car with slicks.
They already have started... no doubt about that.
Eh?! Check clv101's post about 5 or 6 above this one for some clarity. Where were Ferrari until Schumi joined? They couldn't buy a championship... until they bought Schumi and Co.
...what he said.
In addition, Renault lost Alonso, after doing well for 2 successive years. You cant lose Alonso and expect to continue business as usual. It just doesnt work that way. Bennetton lost Schumacher, after dominating for 2yrs and in the 3rd year, were nowhere (just like when Alonso left them). Hence, you cant really use Renault or Bennetton as an example.
With regards to Sauber, BMW are doing pretty well this year. In fact they seem to be mixing it with the McLarens (not quite with the Ferraris though). My argument here would be that the BMWs arent actually able to beat the McLarens, in race trim. In qualifying trim yes, though that might be down to a lower fuel load. During the race, they are finishing ahead of Hamilton due to him have "incidents", which is not a fair comparison. As the season wears on, we shall see McLaren and Ferrari pull away from the rest.
I still contend that McLaren shot themselves in the foot when they got rid of Alonso. No team in the paddock can afford to lose a driver of Hamilton or Alonso's callibre and expect to get away with it. Had Alonso stayed at McLaren, he would probably be leading the title race right now, but I digress...
Oh and btw, the modern era, effectively began, I think, in the 70's.
In my estimation, MS was the best driver ever to have driven an F1 car, so the fact that Ferrari started winning once he arrived isnt exactly a mystery.
The problem is that a Schumacher or an Alonso doesnt arrive in F1 every year, hence a team cannot propel themselves from the midfield, right to the top the way Ferrari, Bennetton and Renault did. In the past 10-15yrs, those 3 teams are the only teams to have moved up the grid radically and that was in part due to them having great drivers. Furthermore, adding/removing driver aids wouldnt have effected the inevitable effects that these drivers would have had on their respective teams.
No way would Alonso have even won a single race last year if he was at Renault (or never left). Even his "Six tenths" wouldn't have helped enough.
Benetton lost a lot of technical and management staff at the same time as Schumi leaving... not just a great driver.
And just to add something else... "In the modern F1 era, the top teams always remain at the top, regardless of the rule changes." So what you are saying is that rule changes don't affect the top teams but driver changes do?! I think that is a very odd way of looking at it. Williams had a potential race winner with BMW V10. But rule changes meant they had to use a V8. BMW bought Sauber, Williams had to make do with a Cosworth and struggeled to get points.
Benetton lost a lot of technical and management staff at the same time as Schumi leaving... not just a great driver.
And just to add something else... "In the modern F1 era, the top teams always remain at the top, regardless of the rule changes." So what you are saying is that rule changes don't affect the top teams but driver changes do?! I think that is a very odd way of looking at it. Williams had a potential race winner with BMW V10. But rule changes meant they had to use a V8. BMW bought Sauber, Williams had to make do with a Cosworth and struggeled to get points.
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It aint just driver aides that are going though! It is one of the biggest rule changes that F1 has ever witnessed. Aero changes, tyres changes, making engines and gear boxes last even further, energy reclaiming and boost technology etc...
You WILL see changes in team form as each get to grips with new technology. Ferrari may loose their relative dominance, they may not. When you have 1000+ employess at somewhere like BMW, you cant say that by swapping a driver is the way to make them into a top team... it needs a complete mental shift with key personnel changing in the non driving department.
Soldato
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I think a wiser way of putting it is 'the team at the top is always a top team'... Which is pretty obvious, but it's not a case of the "top teams" always being at the top. As mentioned above, there have been plenty of times in recent years where one of these teams has got it very wrong.