2008 Turkish GP - Race 5/18

NathanE said:
They didn't scrap their 2008 car.

Their 2007 car was never the concern for the FIA so they would never have "ripped their 07 car apart and done them for it all".

You have very misguided views about this whole subject, JUMPURS. It isn't as simple as "omg they had ferrari data hence they cheated, that is final, end of story". This business has more politics, back stabbing, bungs and cash for honours than there is at 10 Downing Street.
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Sorry, they 'froze development of parts that may have been inspired by Ferrari technical knowledge'

They where in illegal possession of their rivals information. It is as simple as that. Because of that, they where given an advantage. If Hamilton or Alonso had one last year, it would have been no better than someone winning when taking steroids.
 
dannyjo22 said:
He normally has a good rant around monaco, guess he might get stuck in soon ;)

I thought for Piquet that was some poor career advice going there. Almost as good advice as the great indy drivers that turn up to drive say a toyota and think they are going to get anywhere :(
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Didn't have have a good rant about Kovalainen after Australia last year? lol

Piquet would have been better trying for Torro Rosso or someone to learn his trade.
 
Piquet gets to learn from Alonso and from Renault - a combination that worked brilliantly 2 years ago. If I were learning my trade, I would want to learn it from Michael Schumacher or Alonso.
 
JUMPURS said:
Sorry, they 'froze development of parts that may have been inspired by Ferrari technical knowledge'

They where in illegal possession of their rivals information. It is as simple as that. Because of that, they where given an advantage. If Hamilton or Alonso had one last year, it would have been no better than someone winning when taking steroids.
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The FIA has a completely different view point to you on this.

McLaren froze development of parts for their 2008 car that may have been inspired by leaked (by a Ferrari employee I might add) information.

None of the evidence showed McLaren had any information on Ferrari's race strategies at the time.

The evidence was mainly about weight distributions, brake balance and braking systems. It's all in the public FIA report.

As already said, the FIA had no interest in their 2007 car. There was no evidence to suggest the 2007 car had been influenced by the leaked information. The FIA threatened to (in addition to the 2007 constructors title) ban McLaren from the 2008 constructors title but instead decided to audit their car and everything on it.

The FIA did not punish the drivers (Hamilton and Alonso) in any way because they weren't in control of what new contraptions get stuck onto their car. Alonso was involved in the discussions with Stepney and it was this that lead to the break-down of communication with Alonso and the rest of the McLaren team.

The very fact that the FIA did not perform an audit of their 2007 car nor impose any punishment on the drivers or their 2007 car proves that the FIA believed the McLaren car in 2007 was completely legal.

Drawing comparisons to drug taking in other sports is completely irrelevant. Motorsport is not like other sports, at all.
 
frakker said:
Holly Samos asked Pat Symonds about the mistakes Piquet has made so far in his debut F1 season and how they were costing the Renault team points. His response: "Yes they are, and it's not gone unnoticed"

Wonder if we can read anything into this? Piquet having to up his game pronto or find his seat replaced by Romain Grosjean at the end of the season?
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They can't replace one rookie with another every year. I think their expectations are a little high of them.
 
If Renault are confident that Alonso will stay, then perhaps they would best focus their efforts on hiring an experienced driver to be Alonso's No.2, rather than risking inexperienced drivers.
 
I don't think it's fair to completely write off Piquet at this stage, he's made major mistakes but we've seen it happen before with the rookies.
They should really offer a little more support or it'll just get to the stage where he overdrives himself every race, makes mistakes and loses the drive.
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
They should really offer a little more support or it'll just get to the stage where he overdrives himself every race, makes mistakes and loses the drive.
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I'm sure they do go through a de-briefing session during which "coaching" talks are provided. I dont believe they let a rookie crash the car and allow him to go home without discussing what went wrong and how he can improve in future races. Obviously they will also give him a lot of time in the racing simulator, to allow him to practise starting from the back of the grid (which is inherently a lot more dangerous than starting at the front of the grid).
 
Duke said:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42634

I hope Barrichello goes at the end of the season. Nothing against the guy personally, but they really need someone like Rosberg or a quick GP2 driver.
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If Honda want to take a big step forward (and by getting Brawn on board, theyve taken the first step), they really need to hire a driver capable of challenging for race wins. At the moment there are only 3 candidates (Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi, [possibly Kubica]). Any other driver apart from those will probably struggle to win in a car that is currently so slow.

Personally, if Honda were smart, they wouldve got Alonso last year, to assist in the development of the car this year and next, with a view to win races in 2010 and challenge for the title in 2011/2. Basically, Brawn and Alonso wouldve used the Schumacher blue print that was used to such devastating effect at Ferrari. I'm not sure what Alonso's intentions are though, as he seems intent on joining Ferrari these days.

Brawn is an intelligent man and knows more about F1 than most. He will also know that Honda wont be winning titles with the 2 drivers they have right now and at some stage Button and Barrichello will be given the boot. The good thing with Barrichello is that he assisted in developing the title winning Ferrari with MS, so he knows exactly what is required.

In an ideal world, Brawn would persuade MS to join Honda and develop the car, to a point where it was ready to win races. Alonso or Hamilton could take it from there. But that aint gonna happen.
 
How can you develope a car like you did in the past, if Honda are 30bhp down in power they will be until the next 'unfreeze' Of course unless your ferrari who have been allowed to tweak the rule book ;)
 
sunama said:
If Honda want to take a big step forward (and by getting Brawn on board, theyve taken the first step), they really need to hire a driver capable of challenging for race wins. At the moment there are only 3 candidates (Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi, [possibly Kubica]). Any other driver apart from those will probably struggle to win in a car that is currently so slow.

Personally, if Honda were smart, they wouldve got Alonso last year, to assist in the development of the car this year and next, with a view to win races in 2010 and challenge for the title in 2011/2. Basically, Brawn and Alonso wouldve used the Schumacher blue print that was used to such devastating effect at Ferrari. I'm not sure what Alonso's intentions are though, as he seems intent on joining Ferrari these days.

Brawn is an intelligent man and knows more about F1 than most. He will also know that Honda wont be winning titles with the 2 drivers they have right now and at some stage Button and Barrichello will be given the boot. The good thing with Barrichello is that he assisted in developing the title winning Ferrari with MS, so he knows exactly what is required.

In an ideal world, Brawn would persuade MS to join Honda and develop the car, to a point where it was ready to win races. Alonso or Hamilton could take it from there. But that aint gonna happen.
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It won't matter who is in the Honda at the moment, it is nowhere near being able to challenge for the win. I believe Button given the opportunity would do just as good a job with the car as the mentioned drivers. Honda do have a pretty good driver line-up so I am sure they are extracting every bit of knowledge they can from them.
 
sunama said:
Personally, if Honda were smart, they wouldve got Alonso last year, to assist in the development of the car this year and next, with a view to win races in 2010 and challenge for the title in 2011/2. Basically, Brawn and Alonso wouldve used the Schumacher blue print that was used to such devastating effect at Ferrari. I'm not sure what Alonso's intentions are though, as he seems intent on joining Ferrari these days.
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Alonso on a multi year deal would be great, but I think he would only sign 1 year and the only team to want that was Renault.

dannyjo22 said:
How can you develope a car like you did in the past, if Honda are 30bhp down in power they will be until the next 'unfreeze' Of course unless your ferrari who have been allowed to tweak the rule book ;)
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AFAIK the Honda engine is one of the more potent of those on the grid along with Ferrari. Although with Ferrari bending the rules a bit, it may not be now.
 
TomWilko said:
I believe Button given the opportunity would do just as good a job with the car as the mentioned drivers [Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton].
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Alonso:
109 GP starts
19 wins
Double world champion
Proven track record in developing the car from middle of the pack to WDC winning ability
Proven track record to adapt to different F1 cars and push the car to the limit.
Believes he is the best and wants to prove he is so.

Button:
140 GP starts
1 win
Wants to shag as many ***** as humanly possible.

Hmmmm. If I were putting together a dream team, who would I rather have on my team - Alonso or Button???

Sorry TomWilko, that one was too easy. :p
 
Testing times Day 1 of 3 @ Paul Ricard

Code: 
Pos  Driver        Team                       Time     Laps
 1.  Hamilton      McLaren-Mercedes     (B)  1:05.600   84
 2.  Raikkonen     Ferrari              (B)  1:06.089  103
 3.  Kubica        BMW-Sauber           (B)  1:06.177  124
 4.  Webber        Red Bull-Renault     (B)  1:06.348   93
 5.  Vettel        Toro Rosso-Ferrari   (B)  1:06.372   91
 6.  Rosberg       Williams-Toyota      (B)  1:06.571  154
 7.  Wurz          Honda                (B)  1:06.681  131
 8.  Glock         Toyota               (B)  1:06.935   93
 9.  Liuzzi        Force India-Ferrari  (B)  1:07.346  106
10.  di Grassi     Renault              (B)  1:07.430  146

Report: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67419

Pics: http://www.formula1.com/gallery/testing/2008/279.html
 
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Duke said:
AFAIK the Honda engine is one of the more potent of those on the grid along with Ferrari. Although with Ferrari bending the rules a bit, it may not be now.
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The last estimated stats I saw honda was supposed to be around 30bhp down on ferrari, they where right up there until the engine rules for 2 races came out when they went more conservative to prolong the engine life.

If your 30 BHP down no amount of developement in the current f1 rules will see you beat the top car. Which is why the freeze is a stupid idea for not allowing much change of the top teams.

Especially as Ferrari circumvented the rules and gave themselves an alledged extra 30 bhp.
 
I daresay almost all the teams took advantage of the new 2008 ECU to do some engine changes... they would have had the defense of "honest guv we had to do it to make the engine run!"
 
NathanE said:
I daresay almost all the teams took advantage of the new 2008 ECU to do some engine changes... they would have had the defense of "honest guv we had to do it to make the engine run!"
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Ferrari did made changes on the grounds of reliability which they were green lighted to do by the fia. A ferrari employee is alledged to have said the changes have given them upto 25bhp.

A nice work round by ferrari if they managed it :)
 
Testing times Day 2 of 3 @ Paul Ricard

Code: 
[b]Pos  Driver        Team                      Time      Laps[/b]
 1.  Raikkonen     Ferrari              (B)  1:05.381  102
 2.  Kovalainen    McLaren-Mercedes     (B)  1:05.471   89
 3.  Kubica        BMW-Sauber           (B)  1:05.905  135
 4.  Coulthard     Red Bull-Renault     (B)  1:06.001   82
 5.  Button        Honda                (B)  1:06.091  155
 6.  Bourdais      Toro Rosso-Ferrari   (B)  1:06.125  110
 7.  Trulli        Toyota               (B)  1:06.205  120
 8.  Piquet        Renault              (B)  1:06.355  193
 9.  Nakajima      Williams             (B)  1:07.080  129
10.  Sutil         Force India-Ferrari  (B)  1:07.104   56
11.  Fisichella    Force India-Ferrari  (B)  1:07.123   64

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67442
 
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