Are pioneer kuros screens full 1080p?

LionOfJudah

LionOfJudah

LionOfJudah

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5 Jan 2004
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PDP-428XD
PDP-508XD
PDP-5080XD

been looking at the above models and it seems to me that they may not be 1080p. If so how do they seem to come out tops on all the big screen reviews? I am looking to invest in a 46" or as close to and at the moment am looking at either pioneer or samsung (not too bothered it LCD or Plasma - yes I know plasma is better)
Anyone have any experience with the samsung LCD model LE46F86BD?
 
All those Pioneers are 720p.

The reason they come out top is because (deep breath) 1080p is mainly important for marketing rather than the actualy quality of the image you see under everyday viewing conditions.

You can only differentiate between 1080p and 720p if you are sitting 5' away from a 42" screen, and even then the quality of the image you see will also depent upon how the screen processes the image as much as the resolution.

I'll just clarify what I'm saying there: resolution is only one of many aspects that influence how good the image is, and it's probably not even the most important. Anyone who tells you that your TV must be 1080p doesn't know what they are talking about and has been taken in by the marketing.

The 720p Kuros are the second best Tvs available, the 1080p Kuros are the best and are only available in 50" and 60":

PDP-LX608D
PDP-LX6080D
PDP-LX508D
PDP-LX5080D

The next gen Kuros will be out shortly but will only be available in 50" and 60".

/waits for -Ad- to turn up.
 
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how good are the sharp aquos range in comparision to pioneer 720p sets (assuming pioneer is 10/10 where would you rate the sharp aquos LC46XL2E?)
 
LionOfJudah said:
how good are the sharp aquos range in comparision to pioneer 720p sets (assuming pioneer is 10/10 where would you rate the sharp aquos LC46XL2E?)
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My folks have got an Aquos, but I think it's last gen, so I don't think I can give a comparison of the current ones. However, it's not as good as their Panasonic THE-42PX80 which they have in the living room. I'd rate the Panny 9/10 and the Sharp 7.5, but again I don't know the model number.
 
I saw a sharp model yesterday and the quality did seem really crisp. It was set next to a pioneer, however the pioneer was only set to transmit pioneer's own demo blu ray and the shop asst. refused to change the input.

however I am erring now more towards the pioneer sets so which tv?

Pioneer PDP428XD or Pioneer PDP4280XD?
i have narrowed it down to these 2 sets and apart from the 428XD offering picture in picture (which is not really a must) the main diff seems to be price. However the 428XD also has Intelligent Brightness control - what is the benefit of this? it it much different if this was not available (hence what picture quality difference is there between the 2 sets?)
 
There is no difference in picture quality between the 408XD and the 4080XD, at least not at a user level.

The main differences are the PiP, ISF Calibration, and Intelligent Brigtness Control.

I've got the 408XD

I've used PiP occasionally if I'm watching football on ITV & Sky at the same time, but if it wasn't there I wouldn't miss it.

Brightness control was turned off as soon as the screen was plugged in.

ISF Calibration allows a professional engineer to enter the service menus and correctly calibrate such things as the gamma settings to ensure you have the perfect picture. It costs about £300. I might have it done later in the year, but I'm not in any rush although the results are supposed to be impressive if you are using multiple sources though multiple inputs.
 
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[DOD]Asprilla;11696590 said:
The reason they come out top is because (deep breath) 1080p is mainly important for marketing rather than the actualy quality of the image you see under everyday viewing conditions.
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False. 1080p is not marketing. A 1080p TV is the only way to render a 1080p input signal with true 1:1 pixel mapping. A lower resolution TV will downscale the picture. Even with a fantastic scaler like those built into the Pioneer's the picture is not going to a as good downscaled than it would have been at native resolution. All TVs next year IMO will be full hd. If you buy a 720p TV now you could be kicking yourself. Blu ray is taking off and a 1080p TV is the only way to watch it at native resolution. 720p downscaling is a compromise IMO.


[DOD]Asprilla;11696590 said:
You can only differentiate between 1080p and 720p if you are sitting 5' away from a 42" screen,
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False. You will see that the chart says that the benefits become noticable of 1080p at about 7-8 feet and that the full benefit is at 6 feet.

I sit about 8 feet from my full Hd plasma and can easily notice the difference between 1080p and 720p. 720p looks softer.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

[DOD]Asprilla;11696590 said:
and even then the quality of the image you see will also depent upon how the screen processes the image as much as the resolution.
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True, but the best processing is none at all. Feed a 1080p 24 fps source into a 1080p 24fps screen and you have perfection. Feed a 1080p 24fps source into a 720p 30fps and you will have downscaling and 3:2 pull down, which is just a compromise IMO
 
Put it this way - I would rather have a fantasic panel that can 'only' display 720p than a very average panel that can display 1080p.
 
TheDean said:
Put it this way - I would rather have a fantasic panel that can 'only' display 720p than a very average panel that can display 1080p.
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True. But if two panels had the same contrast ratio, color saturation, and color accuracy then I would choose a 1080p over a 720p. The best, most expensive, 720p today my not be as good as a middle of the road 1080p next year. And IMO you will be hard pushed to find a 720p next year. But if your happy with your 720p telly then keep on being happy.:D
 
entireweb said:
True. But if two panels had the same contrast ratio, color saturation, and color accuracy then I would choose a 1080p over a 720p. The best, most expensive, 720p today my not be as good as a middle of the road 1080p next year. And IMO you will be hard pushed to find a 720p next year. But if your happy with your 720p telly then keep on being happy.:D
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But we're not talking about 'next year' are we? We're talking about the here and now. The here and now (for me) is not spending more that £750 on a Tv. I could well afford it, but I like a lot of people want value for money and not massive depreciation within 6months.

You will also not find two panels which have the same color saturation, and color accuracy. Even if you could, you still may not chose the 1080p model...it depends on lots of variables: price, viewing distance, purpose of Tv etc etc etc

What I am trying to tell you is that some 720p panels (The PX80 specifically) rate better than many, many more expensive 1080p panels. Please don't get caught up on 'if it doesn't have 1080p then I'm not buying it'. That doesn't matter as much as every other aspect of the Tv. You have to remember that SD performance is the priority for the majority and the likelyhood is they'll only watch HD on it 25% of the time anyway!

With the current Plasmas & LCD's you simply cannot have the best of both worlds (i.e. excellent panel which will excel in all areas) without spending over £1k.

In an ideal world we'd all have a Kuro, but it's not an ideal world is it? :)
 
TheDean said:
With the current Plasmas & LCD's you simply cannot have the best of both worlds (i.e. excellent panel which will excel in all areas) without spending over £1k.
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Nothing is perfect, of-course and it is always a compromise between price and performance. Which is why I bought the panasonic 1080p 42" PV70 (less than 1K) To my eyes the picture quality is nothing more than stunning. I dont watch standard def on it, its not even connected to the TV socket (I live in Germany and TV is cr*p here). It is used mainly for hi def playback, blu and hd dvd. I waited for the last two years before a suitable full hd plasma came out for less than 1K. That was my criteria. I wouldnt touch a 720p set with a barge pole. Buts that my opinion.
 
entireweb said:
False. 1080p is not marketing. A 1080p TV is the only way to render a 1080p input signal with true 1:1 pixel mapping. A lower resolution TV will downscale the picture. Even with a fantastic scaler like those built into the Pioneer's the picture is not going to a as good downscaled than it would have been at native resolution. All TVs next year IMO will be full hd. If you buy a 720p TV now you could be kicking yourself. Blu ray is taking off and a 1080p TV is the only way to watch it at native resolution. 720p downscaling is a compromise IMO.
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Ok, maybe i din't make myself clear, because I'm slightly bored of explaining the same thing is loads of threads - what I should have said was that the focus on 1080p was a 'marketing' thing. There are many 720p screens which produce better images than their 1080p bretheren. Other aspects of the image reproduction should also be taken into account.

BD is becoming more popular, but at best it will only represent a small fraction of most people's TV usage.

False. You will see that the chart says that the benefits become noticable of 1080p at about 7-8 feet and that the full benefit is at 6 feet.

I sit about 8 feet from my full Hd plasma and can easily notice the difference between 1080p and 720p. 720p looks softer.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
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The chart isn't the gospel. The full benefit of 1080p is viasble at 6' and the full benefit of 720p is visable at 7'6" on a 42"? Come one, you must realise that that chart will look different for every single manufacturer.

True, but the best processing is none at all. Feed a 1080p 24 fps source into a 1080p 24fps screen and you have perfection. Feed a 1080p 24fps source into a 720p 30fps and you will have downscaling and 3:2 pull down, which is just a compromise IMO
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How about feeding a 1080p source into a 720p 24fps screen?

I'm just truing to get people to look at the images, not the numbers.
 
[DOD]Asprilla;11714770 said:
That's because you're view is not 'normal' and you use your screen solely for HD playback - this would account for less than 10% of most standard viewing (at a complete guess.)
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True. But I suspect that as the years go buy, more and more people will be watching full hd from blu ray etc. Most people buy a TV and keep it for 5 years at least I would guess. So to future proof your purchase IMO, 1080p is the way forward.
 
entireweb said:
True. But I suspect that as the years go buy, more and more people will be watching full hd from blu ray etc. Most people buy a TV and keep it for 5 years at least I would guess. So to future proof your purchase IMO, 1080p is the way forward.
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Why? more people will be substituting BD for DVD, but it still doesn't represent a large amount of usage for the vast majority of people. Similarly broadcast HD isn't going to be going base 1080i any time soon.

I sit 9' from a 42" TV and as a result I bought a 428XD because a 1080p TV would not provide me with any improvement in image quality and nor is it likely to in the foreseeable future. Instead I bought the TV that looked the best.
 
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[DOD]Asprilla;11714880 said:
Why? more people will be substituting BD for DVD, but it still doesn't represent a large amount of usage for the vast majority of people. Similarly broadcast HD isn't going to be going base 1080i any time soon.

I sit 9' from a 42" TV and as a result I bought a 428XD because a 1080p TV would not provide me with any improvement in image quality and nor is it likely to in the foreseeable future. Instead I bought the TV that looked the best.
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Thank God....I just hope people listen you to DOD, rather than the insane warblings of '1080p-be-all-and-end-all-man' :rolleyes:
 
[DOD]Asprilla;11714754 said:
The chart isn't the gospel. The full benefit of 1080p is viasble at 6' and the full benefit of 720p is visable at 7'6" on a 42"? Come one, you must realise that that chart will look different for every single manufacturer.
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The chart has nothing to do with manufacturer. It is based on the angular resolution of the human eye. It is the distance that a human eye can see the resolve pixels of a given size. I agree it isnt gospel but it was in response to your unsubstantiated post.

[DOD]Asprilla;11714754 said:
You can only differentiate between 1080p and 720p if you are sitting 5' away from a 42" screen,
Click to expand...
 
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