Its a never ending game. All TVs have there advantages and disadvantages. But I would be beware of the Kuro as the holy grail of panels, the Unicorn of Plasmas, so to speak. Even if I had an endless wallet I would not buy the 720p Kuro. The new Kuro is going to be a stonker. See above post. But then again its $4000 dollars. So you have to way it up, $4000 for the stonker or half that for IMO something that probably you will be very happy with and which will also blow your socks off!
Are pioneer kuros screens full 1080p?
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Its a never ending game. All TVs have there advantages and disadvantages. But I would be beware of the Kuro as the holy grail of panels, the Unicorn of Plasmas, so to speak. Even if I had an endless wallet I would not buy the 720p Kuro. The new Kuro is going to be a stonker. See above post. But then again its $4000 dollars. So you have to way it up, $4000 for the stonker or half that for IMO something that probably you will be very happy with and which will also blow your socks off!
Haha ye never ending game. I got mine for a great price in Jan down to 1400 and have had soo much use out of it. But then again I could have waited for the new panasonics, then again for the new kuros, then again for the 9mm concept. Id never own a tv
the PX80 is the best value 42 inch out there, and I don't want to see the 46PZ80, just because I don't want to see what else there is to offer. Im happy with mine and my 5yr warranty, so something may break on mine in the 4th year and they will have to give me an upgraded model
Haha ye never ending game. I got mine for a great price in Jan down to 1400 and have had soo much use out of it. But then again I could have waited for the new panasonics, then again for the new kuros, then again for the 9mm concept. Id never own a tv
the PX80 is the best value 42 inch out there, and I don't want to see the 46PZ80, just because I don't want to see what else there is to offer. Im happy with mine and my 5yr warranty, so something may break on mine in the 4th year and they will have to give me an upgraded model
I agree. I waited and waited for the 42" PZ70 to price drop. It did and I bought it. A week later a 46" PZ80 was only 300 euro more. Arrrrrrgggghhhh. But then again I am very happy with the 42", which BTW the wife thinks is "TOO BIG" . So smuggling in a 46" might have been a problem
But if I was to be honest now and had to advice someone if they should buy the 720p Kuro. I would say NO strongly. The 46" PZ80 is a better deal, period, IMO.
Also BTW in Germany all electrical goods carry a 3 year warranty. I thought that was EU law. Ok not 5 years, but still 3 is pretty good.
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no just a year over here unless there is special deals on a certain companies
![[DOD]Asprilla](/styles/overclockers/avatars/8.png){kind=avatar}
Soldato
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And only available in sizes of 50" and above because Pioneer feel that 1080p below that size is pointless.
[DOD]Asprilla;11717251 said:
[DOD]Asprilla;11717251 said:
Correct.
[DOD]Asprilla;11717251 said:
Incorrect. Thats your interpretation. But not the case. Pioneer and Panasonic have now joined forces. Panasonic and Pioneer are now just a brand labels. The Panasonic brand will be low to mid end and the Pioneer will be high end. In this case it is logical that the Pioneer panels will be 50 inch plus. Thats got nothing to to do with the fact that Pioneer or Panasonic believe 1080p on a 50" or less is pointless.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04/24/pioneer_4_panasonic/
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I was just passing time and went into this certain shop and asked some questions. There is an independent shop near my house who only stocks sony and pioneer so a visit there should give me a good idea on picture quality. my initial tv was going to be sony 46W3000 but I think sony as a company are having some probs from what I hear so am looking at different products.
My dilemma was do I look at slightly cheaper 1080p or pioneer 720p. (I can't stretch to a pioneer 1080p). Also I am in a flat so will prob be 7-8 feet max away from the tv and anything larger than a 46inch would be enourmous on the wall.
my main use will be normal tv (for the wifey) and blu ray and dvds (for me) and of course the usual load of football on SD sky. I would say 25% HD and 75% SD.
thanks for all your inputs - giving me lots of food fo thought.
I would always advice viewing a TV in a specialist AV Hi-fi shop. In Munich we have a specialist AV HI-Fi shop, you know the kind, with bulls*t "see through" record decks and gold plated HDMI cabled for 100 euros! But it has an AV room. I visited a few times and I got him to set up a number of plasmas. Including a 720p Kuro and my 1080p PZ70. He hooked them up to a PS3 and a Toshiba hd dvd player. I took in some discs and spent a few hours in his dark room checking the picture quality etc. The PZ70 didnt have as good a black level as the Kuro, but that was marginal IMO, but it did show finer detail. So I decided on the PZ70.
7 to 8 feet is the same as I sit from the 1080p pZ70. I can see the difference between a 720p input and a 1080p input. For instance I have mkvs encoded from the same source at both resolutions. The 1080p encode looks sharper. I dont have Sky, but IMO 720p Sky TV picture will look the same on both. However sky hd also use 1080i. This will look better on a 1080p display as the scaler has to do less work and doesn't have to downscale to 720p. I would have got a 46", but as you say, I suspect my wife would have gone ballistic.
I wont advice on a TV for fear of flaming. All I can say is that my PZ70 is spot on, and I presume a panasonic PZ80 is just as good
But then again my viewing is the opposite from yours. Mine is 90% HD and 10% SD. I dont connect to a broadcast input and my SD is upscaled dvd and xvid.
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Nope, they are outsourcing their panel production to Panasonic but are continuing to do their own development in house.
Looks like a pretty good arrangement which should see benefits for all concerned, including the consumer.
The next gen Kuros will be the last built exclusively by Pio.
Not raving on again, but with the amount of HD you will be watching combined with a large amount of SDm the Kuro would probably be the best tv, probably because at 7-8ft a 42 is a perfect size and will not look too overpowering, plus the sheer quality for SD really is something that continues to show where these panels strengths really are.
Footy is a real deal clinch for me as well, but that has since subsided as we cannot get a dish put up, or get virgin cable. Im love wathcing footy on BBC as it looks the best out of all SD channels, whilst itv PQ is a bit meh in comparison.
I wont advice on a TV for fear of flaming. All I can say is that my PZ70 is spot on, and I presume a panasonic PZ80 is just as good
With that much HD then Im not surprised you went for the Pana 1080p. Im about 40% freeview, 30% PS3 gaming, and 30% upscaled dvds/blu-rays, so one hell of a wide spread
Most importantly we love our sets, and I have to post again how great dvds can still look when upscaled with the PS3.
[DOD]Asprilla;11718490 said:
+1 Pio certainly are not giving up, jsut trying to improve profit margins.
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Me too, I wish I had waiting until now and Id have happily paid the £400 or so more for a 4208 over my Samsung 40" M86 1080P !OMG! set. Simple fact is very few LCD 1080 panels stay at 1080res as soon as things start moving, the blur acts as a downscaler!
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They start at 50" for start and it thinks it quote obvious that its clearly something thats preferable when you want to sell more TV;s not only to those who like good PQ but also paper spec muppets when in pursuit of market share?
My mum and Dads X-trail is so much better than my Integra, it has 4 doors, bigger wheels and a 2.5 litre engine...
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Seen it with my own eyes, i know a few people with a PZ70 as it is a very popular screen but the one i specifically saw for the 24p test did not do 24p properly.
It was tested with a PS3 + Xe1 and yes it was not as bad as running 60hz but it was also not as silky smooth as 24p on my screen or on the HD1 projector we compared it too. FWIW the PZ85 i have seen had spot on motion and was better than the PZ70.
As for the Kuros, they are indeed fab and i would have one but for the one i have seen in action having lots of noise on any mode but cinema - as soon as cinema mode goes on you get the nasty pioneer internal FRC and the judder is back.
Having said that this was an original Kuro as soon as they were out and i have heard since that this issue has been resolved but having got over the initial temptation to get one i have not looked at them. Certainly a static image was mind blowing and motion was awesome but the noise let it down for me. The chap no longer has the Kuro so i have not had a good play with one since then so i am happy to be wrong if it is a non issue.
So a somewhat irrelevant point then
They are indeed but I don't know if I'd pick a PZ80 over any Kuro, but it'd be a really close call.
PZ80 no, because it still judders on 24p as it converts straight back to 60hz. However I believe this is now fixed on the PZ85 which is 1920x1080 with a 72hz playback mode for true 24p support!.
I believe its only the PZ85 and newer that have a proper refresh rate for smooth 24p support, considering a lot of the info I've seen pretty much state this as the "main" improvement over the PZ70 and PZ80 series.
I would take a TH42PZ85 over a Kuro, as the 85 as smooth support of 24p is full HD and while its blacks are not quite as good as the Kuro, its considerably cheaper, and offers 99% of the quality of the Kuro. Well not the 42
at 12 ft viewing distance, I could certainly get at least a 50inch PZ85 perhaps even stretch to the more expensive 58inch 
Well it's looking like the new 1080p 50 inch Kuro 9G coming out in a month or so will be around £2400. If that is true, and the improvements over the 8G is there, then the new panasonic range will be made to look very average.
But then we go on about how much people are prepared to pay for what they want.
Screw it, skimp and save for the new kuros, aim high
But then we go on about how much people are prepared to pay for what they want.
Screw it, skimp and save for the new kuros, aim high
PZ80 no, because it still judders on 24p as it converts straight back to 60hz. However I believe this is now fixed on the PZ85 which is 1920x1080 with a 72hz playback mode for true 24p support!.
I believe its only the PZ85 and newer that have a proper refresh rate for smooth 24p support, considering a lot of the info I've seen pretty much state this as the "main" improvement over the PZ70 and PZ80 series.
I would take a TH42PZ85 over a Kuro, as the 85 as smooth support of 24p is full HD and while its blacks are not quite as good as the Kuro, its considerably cheaper, and offers 99% of the quality of the Kuro. Well not the 42
Problem is it is not easy to prove whether the PZ70/PZ80/PZ85 supports true 72hz 24fps. For instance I have a pZ70 (note with latest firmware) )and have powerstriped my HTPC to provide input at 1920x1080 at 72hz. The TV takes the signal and using blu ray or HD dvd the picture is smooth. So for instance during slow panning or credits the is no judder IMO. But then again the judder from 3:2 pulldown is very subjective, some people dont notice it, some people do.
But the TV takes nearly any signal I throw at it. 24hz interlaced, 50Hz, 60 Hz, 72hz, 100hz and 120hz.
It is very possible that when the TV takes a 72Hz input it converts to 60Hz and then does a 3:2 pulldown. Having said that proper 3:2 pulldown, with other image processing effects going on could look like true 24fps. Only the engineers at panasonic know what is going on inside.
Now if you look into my manual for the pz70, it says "supports" 24fps input. What does that mean??????
When I look at the spec of the pz80 it says
24p Real Cinema n/a
24p Playback yes
and the pz85
24p Real Cinema yes
24p Playback yes
Both TVs have listed
1125 (1080)/24p (HDMI only) yes yes
But I know mine takes
(1080)/72p
And then you see panasonic go on about "Intelligent Frame Creation" for the pz85. Which would suggest that it is using 3:2 pulldown and some extra imagine processing.
So the conclusion is
pz70 24fps (maybe/maybe not)
pz80 24fps (maybe/maybe not)
pz85 24fps (maybe/maybe not)
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AS above I also thought the only difference between the 85 and 80 was the 'Real Cinema' extra tricks rather than core 24p support not being available on the 80, and Avforums seemed to agree, although there's a load of confusion.
Maybe by "24p input" they mean it accepts the input and scales it, just like 720p TVs are advertised as accepting a 1080p signal eventhough they have to scale it?
So confusing
Maybe by "24p input" they mean it accepts the input and scales it, just like 720p TVs are advertised as accepting a 1080p signal eventhough they have to scale it?
So confusing
AS above I also thought the only difference between the 85 and 80 was the 'Real Cinema' extra tricks rather than core 24p support not being available on the 80, and Avforums seemed to agree, although there's a load of confusion.
Maybe by "24p input" they mean it accepts the input and scales it, just like 720p TVs are advertised as accepting a 1080p signal eventhough they have to scale it?
So confusing
It is very confusing yes.
IMO "24fps" is just marketing sticker that Panasonic added to the outside of the TV when you see it in the shop. If you go and look at a PZ85 on display, you will see stickers all around the screen. True Cinema mode, 24FPS, Contrast ratio (100,0000:1 or somesuch nonsense), Full HD, Sports mode, etc etc etc. All off which are pretty meaningless.
But then again I wouldnt get to hung about 24fps. It doesnt matter what the TV is doing if it looks good to you.
This thread has been going around and around. 1080p is pointless on a 42", Yes it is, no it isnt. 24fps isnt supported, yes it is, no it isnt etc etc etc.