2008 French Grand Prix - Race 8/17

[Cavallino]

5) I loved how desperately unexcited JA was when Massa took the chequered flag

Absolute truth. Had it been a non-Ferrari car he would be literally getting "over"-excited if you know what I mean.

 

[UKTopGun]

Stopped both videos at the same point.

On the first attempt. Schumacher was ahead of PdlR.
On the second, PdlR was ahead of Schumacher.

Had Schumacher cut across and still maintained a lead on the second attempt, I reckon he shouldve been penalised then.

Schumacher was ahead, but only stayed ahead because he cut the corner.

Hamilton was ahead, and only stayed ahead because he cut the corner.

Hmmmm......

By the way I think the Hamilton decision was probably correct, it's just how decisions seem to always change when its Ferrari!

 

[NathanE]

Are Ferrari allowed to repair any damage to his engine?

 

[JRS]

Hamilton has hardly spent his entire career getting screwed by officialdom. The way some of you talk, you'd think every single race steward was out to get him.

He was able to get them on his side against his team-mate at Hungary.
He got winched back onto the track (if that ain't outside assistance I'm not sure what is....) at the Nurburgring.
He wasn't punished post-Japan for the dicking about he did behind the safety car that probably led to the Vettel-Webber collision.

Some days the luck is with you, some days it isn't, and some days you manage to pile into the back of stationary cars in the pitlane. Lewis has had a bad couple of races, he'll get over it.

 

[Cavallino]

Schumacher was ahead, but only stayed ahead because he cut the corner.

No Schumi stayed ahead because PdlR didnt yield the corner despite Schumi arriving ahead of PdlR (marginally) at the corner. If Schumi didnt yield both of them would be saying hello to the graveltrap.

Hamilton was ahead, and only stayed ahead because he cut the corner.

Hamilton overtook, but didnt make the corner, thats the point. I.e. by banzai-ing the overtake, he didnt give any afterthought about his next corner and whether he would be able to negotiate it, which he didnt.

This could be likened to the last corner in Canada (the chicane). If one driver overtook another on the straight but couldnt brake in time and then just went over the chicane (instead of negotiating it), he should be penalised.

Hmmmm......

By the way I think the Hamilton decision was probably correct, it's just how decisions seem to always change when its Ferrari!

When Schumacher was penalised for parking it at Monaco (in 06), he was dropped to the back of the field. He didnt prevent Alonso from making his quali lap.

But when Alonso parked his car deliberately to prevent Hamilton from making a hot lap, he gets dropped only 5 places.

Swings and rounadabouts mate.

 

[ps3ud0]

What I have to ask is whats up with the Mclaren team? They seem to be very indecisive making crunch decisions and appear to be amateurs with the decisions they do make this year (and most of last season).

Why didnt they just tell/force Hamilton to un-pass the Red Bull as at the end of the day it wouldnt have affected his whole race and realising there was some greyness in interpretation of that pass they should have erred on caution...

Hamiltons over-aggressive driving combined with McLarens inability to make decent timely decisions are going to make either of them lose out on this years championships - they dont need help from Ferrari or the FIA...

ps3ud0

 

[Cavallino]

Lewis has had a bad couple of races, he'll get over it.

You'd think, but the way he was driving on the first few laps, you can see it in his driving that it was getting to him...

It will be interesting to see how the British media will intepret the events over the last 3 hours... if they dont back Hamilton/Mclaren in some shape or form, I think Hamilton can really kiss this championship goodbye (well its early days but the way things are going at the moment you cant discount it as a distinct possibility)

 

[Flibster]

Are Ferrari allowed to repair any damage to his engine?

Depends on whats damanged. Not sure if he's used his free engine change yet though - can't be bothered to work it out.

They are not allowed to break any of the FIA seals without FIA approval and supervision.

5.17 Replacing engine parts
The parts in lists A and B below may be changed without incurring a penalty under Article 28.4 of the 2008 F1 Sporting Regulations. If changing any of these parts involves breaking a seal this may be done but must carried out under FIA supervision. The parts in List B may only be replaced by identical homologated parts in accordance with Appendix 6 of the 2008 F1 Sporting Regulations.
List A
- Clutch
- Clutch basket
- Hydraulic pumps
- Engine electronic boxes (ECU's, power modules, control boxes)
- Fuel filters
- Fuel pumps
- Oil filters
- Oil tank systems
- Pneumatic bottles, regulators, pumps and pipes for valve actuation
- Exhaust systems
- Supports and brackets related to the auxiliaries, mentioned above
- Screws, nuts, dowels or washers related to the auxiliaries, mentioned above
- Cables, tubes or hoses related to the auxiliaries, mentioned above
- Oil or air seals related to the auxiliaries, mentioned above
- Spark plugs
List B
- Throttle system (including but not limited to throttle device, linkage, actuator, hydraulics)
- Intake system external to cylinder head (including but not limited to trumpets, trumpet tray, air box, air filter)
- Ignition coils
- Injection system
- Alternators
- Oil scavenging pumps
- Oil supply pumps
- Oil air separators
- Water pumps
- Electric and electronic sensors

And the gearbox regs.

9.5.1 A gearbox is defined as all the parts in the drive line which transfer torque from the engine crankshaft to the drive shafts (the drive shafts being defined as those components which transfer drive torque from the sprung mass to the un-sprung mass). It includes all components whose primary purpose is for the transmission of power or mechanical selection of gears, bearings associated with these components and the casing in which they are housed.

9.5.2 In this context the following parts are not considered part of the gearbox and may be changed without incurring a penalty under the F1 Sporting Regulations. If changing any of these parts involves breaking an FIA applied seal this may be done but must be carried out under FIA supervision :
- the clutch assembly and any shaft connecting the clutch to the crankshaft or first motion shaft of the gearbox, provided this is located prior to any mechanical speed reduction from the engine ;
- the clutch actuator and clutch release bearing(s) ;
- inboard driveshaft joints and seals but not their housing if that housing is integral with the gearbox output shaft and therefore part of the sprung mass ;
- the hydraulic system prior to the point at which it produces direct mechanical movement of the gear selection mechanism by means of hydraulic actuator(s) ;
- oil, oil pumps, oil filters, oil seals, oil coolers and any associated hoses or pipes ;
- electrical sensors, actuators, servo valves and wiring ;
- any parts associated with the suspension or functioning of the sprung suspension that are attached to the gearbox casing ;
- the rear impact structure provided it can be separated from any gearbox casing ;
- any other component mounted to the casing whose primary purpose is unconnected with the transmission of power or selection of gears.

 

[Cavallino]

What I have to ask is whats up with the Mclaren team? They seem to be very indecisive making crunch decisions and appear to be amateurs with the decisions they do make this year (and most of last season).

Why didnt they just tell/force Hamilton to un-pass the Red Bull as at the end of the day it wouldnt have affected his whole race and realising there was some greyness in interpretation of that pass they should have erred on caution...

Hamiltons over-aggressive driving combined with McLarens inability to make decent timely decisions are going to make either of them lose out on this years championships...

ps3ud0

Agreed. Didnt Heikki let Jarno through again when he jumped a chicane at the end by the way?

 

[JRS]

I don't think he ever got by Trulli in the first place. I'm still wondering if Trulli was a bit naughty there, if that had been a Ferrari driver squeezing Hamilton out you'd all be baying for blood!

 

[Cavallino]

I don't think he ever got by Trulli in the first place. I'm still wondering if Trulli was a bit naughty there, if that had been a Ferrari driver squeezing Hamilton out you'd all be baying for blood!

Cant remember tbh lol. Was too busy getting ready to celebrate the Ferrari win

 

[NathanE]

Hamilton has hardly spent his entire career getting screwed by officialdom. The way some of you talk, you'd think every single race steward was out to get him.

He was able to get them on his side against his team-mate at Hungary.
He got winched back onto the track (if that ain't outside assistance I'm not sure what is....) at the Nurburgring.
He wasn't punished post-Japan for the dicking about he did behind the safety car that probably led to the Vettel-Webber collision.

Some days the luck is with you, some days it isn't, and some days you manage to pile into the back of stationary cars in the pitlane. Lewis has had a bad couple of races, he'll get over it.

He was a rookie last year. I think the FIA may have, even if they didn't realise, been slightly easier on him last year. It was clear he had some fans in the FIA that wanted to see if he really could do it in his rookie season.

Now he is no longer the golden boy. He is just another race driver on the track really. So no one cares any more and he gets the full wrath of any rule violations he makes, no matter how small they may be.

He got lifted back on track last year as it was still allowed. It was only banned this year.

He wasn't mucking around behind the SC. He was driving defensively to make sure he didn't get collected by someone behind - which as we found out happened moments later with someone else...

Alonso got dropped 5 places and only 5 places (as opposed to Schumi's start from the back at Monaco) because I suspect they were on the same team. So really it didn't affect proceedings terribly much. The FIA just wanted to set a precedent so that intra-team conflicts don't affect the race results.

That's my view anyway, what do you think?

 

[NathanE]

You'd think, but the way he was driving on the first few laps, you can see it in his driving that it was getting to him...

It will be interesting to see how the British media will intepret the events over the last 3 hours... if they dont back Hamilton/Mclaren in some shape or form, I think Hamilton can really kiss this championship goodbye (well its early days but the way things are going at the moment you cant discount it as a distinct possibility)

I may have misunderstood but how does British media support correlate to LH not winning the WDC?

Yes it could affects his morale, as it clearly did today, but to be honest I can't see it bothering him long term!

I think it's crazy that the media are pretty much waiting for him to stumble a bit before sticking their boot in. The next race he should get all the support he needs and I'm sure he will ... it is a sell out afterall!

 

[Cavallino]

I may have misunderstood but how does British media support correlate to LH not winning the WDC?

Yes it could affects his morale, as it clearly did today, but to be honest I can't see it bothering him long term!

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080622131800.shtml

Dont care what you say... (nothing personal )... if hes making a point of it... its on his mind, and if its on his mind, then it will be eating away at him, and this will ultimately have some sort of impact on his driving, question is, how Hamilton can focus on driving and forget about the rubbish happening outside of the cockpit

 

[JRS]

That's my view anyway, what do you think?

Well, let's see now....

He was a rookie last year. I think the FIA may have, even if they didn't realise, been slightly easier on him last year. It was clear he had some fans in the FIA that wanted to see if he really could do it in his rookie season.

I doubt the FIA were that bothered, but those on the promotional side might have been. And at the end of the day, I suspect they can have almost as much pull with the circuit officials as the FIA.

Now he is no longer the golden boy. He is just another race driver on the track really.

Don't let ITV hear you say that!

So no one cares any more and he gets the full wrath of any rule violations he makes, no matter how small they may be.

And what "small" violations of the rules has he made this year? Canada was a pretty huge one! Today....I honestly think that penalty was pretty harsh, but they all know the rules about chicane-hopping.

He got lifted back on track last year as it was still allowed. It was only banned this year.

I honestly thought outside assistance always had been banned, aside from getting winched/pushed out if you were in an un-safe position. The race was behind the safety car at that point, so he wasn't in a truly dangerous situation any more.

If outside assistance hasn't always been banned, then Ayrton Senna really did get screwed over in '89....

He wasn't mucking around behind the SC. He was driving defensively to make sure he didn't get collected by someone behind - which as we found out happened moments later with someone else...

You don't reckon standing on the brakes behind the safety car on a very wet day with rubbish visibility was a tiny bit dangerous?

Alonso got dropped 5 places and only 5 places (as opposed to Schumi's start from the back at Monaco) because I suspect they were on the same team. So really it didn't affect proceedings terribly much. The FIA just wanted to set a precedent so that intra-team conflicts don't affect the race results.

Personally I reckon the FIA ought to have sent both of them to the back for being petulant little cocks, but that's just me


****edit****

Has Hamilton actually come out and held his hands up for the Montreal crash? Kimi apologised after stacking into Sutil, but I've missed any comment from Hamilton about missing the flashing red light, the radio'd warning and the fact that there were stationary cars ahead of him....

Even if he honestly thought he wasn't to blame, it wouldn't have done him any harm in the eyes of his detractors to admit fault.

 

[Cavallino]

I think Hamilton did appologies, and I think in one of the interviews he did say "I didnt see the red light".

But he didnt put his hands up and say "It was my fault".

I think!

 

[JRS]

I think Hamilton did appologies, and I think in one of the interviews he did say "I didnt see the red light".

So what about the team warning him on the radio and the small matter (that I do so love coming back to) of the two cars parked at the pit exit?

 

[NathanE]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080622131800.shtml

Dont care what you say... (nothing personal )... if hes making a point of it... its on his mind, and if its on his mind, then it will be eating away at him, and this will ultimately have some sort of impact on his driving, question is, how Hamilton can focus on driving and forget about the rubbish happening outside of the cockpit

I hope he can. If he can't then he won't last much longer.

He puts a lot of pressure on himself. I fear that in order for him to become a balanced non-hot-headed racing driver it may require him to lose this years WDC. That way he will have zero rep in the media to care about starting 2009. And he basically would have a clean slate (as well as a clean slate rule book ) to build it back up again.

Hope it doesn't come to that though.

 

[JUMPURS]

I may have misunderstood but how does British media support correlate to LH not winning the WDC?

Exactly, it's not like he is subjected to it since he ****ed off to Switzerland.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

I think the majority of people that were on about the dangers of Kimi's exhaust today were just wanting to see him penalised and couldn't give a **** about any safety aspects.

Hamilton's penalty was harsh but he was going way to fast for that corner, quite why we didn't see another angle of it I don't know, I'd like to know how close the Toro Rosso was to him.

I'm getting quite sick of the whole ITV team just speaking of Kovaleinen as the 'Barrichello' of the Mclaren team. "What will Heikki's role be today?" "How will he help Hamilton?", etc, etc... You'd never hear of it if the roles were reversed.