2008 French Grand Prix - Race 8/17

And I though Heidfeld was very young?

I meant the same is true for Heidfeld V JV. JV had the legs on heidfeld and was out racing him until the nice Dr mario started unsettling JV.

Neither Heidfeld or Massa did enough against an old dog to justify a top line drive. Button did so much more, although granted Richards had a hand in making JV feel unwelcome.
 
Neither Heidfeld or Massa did enough against an old dog to justify a top line drive.

Steady on. You are making out as if JV was some crap driver, over the hill, overweight with 1 eye missing. He was still a force to be reckoned with. He was past his best though - yes.

Heidfeld didnt really get a top line drive. He moved to BMW who at the time werent that great. This is their breakthrough year.

Massa on the other hand, did move to a title/race winning team.

Button did so much more, although granted Richards had a hand in making JV feel unwelcome.

I do agree. And for his troubles, Button got a great salary package. Since then of course, he has lost his motivation and is happy to make up the numbers, so long as he receives a fat pay packet. Nothing wrong with that, mind you - its just that on this forum, Button is heralded as the great white hope, which he isnt. He won a single race, in the wet. Thats all. I would be shocked if he ever won another race.
 
How did he secure such a salary though? After "Buttongate" :rolleyes: (What other "gates" will we see over the next couple of years?) I thought nobody would touch him?
 
I do agree. And for his troubles, Button got a great salary package. Since then of course, he has lost his motivation and is happy to make up the numbers, so long as he receives a fat pay packet. Nothing wrong with that, mind you - its just that on this forum, Button is heralded as the great white hope, which he isnt. He won a single race, in the wet. Thats all. I would be shocked if he ever won another race.

In a world where a journyman like Massa wins races, anything is possible.
 
How did he secure such a salary though? After "Buttongate" :rolleyes: (What other "gates" will we see over the next couple of years?) I thought nobody would touch him?

Buttongate showed how much Honda wanted him. Bet he wish he had went to Williams now.
 
How did he secure such a salary though? After "Buttongate" :rolleyes: (What other "gates" will we see over the next couple of years?) I thought nobody would touch him?

Why wouldnt they touch him?
He did have a lot of contractual problems during his early years, but that was probably because he was in demand. At the time, he was believed to be someone who could win races and titles, so it would make sense for lots of teams to be after him.

He secured a drive with Bar Honda (or whatever they want to call themselves) and negotiated a good salary. Nothing wrong with that and I commend him for that. Why should he accept a low salary when someone is willing to pay more?

Unfortunately, he has become very comfortable in his role at Honda, which has led to stagnation, leading to a loss of ambition. Shame, really.
 
Ok I havnt had a chance to have a little rant about this weekend so.. here it goes.

ITV Commentary of quali.. "oh dear kimi has put all 4 wheels over the white line, he might get the lap disallowed, you better go and do another lap!" or words to that effect..

Look back to canada track guide with lewis hamilton.. "Yeah i actually put all 4 wheels inside the white line and go over the kerb" - LH
"wow your so brave!" - MB (again words to that effect)
And sure enough lewis flies over the kerbs on his final quali run...

So.. How come there was never any mention of a penalty for Lewis blatantly cutting a corner, yet they were quick enough to point out kimi who merely ran wide.

Next I move on to the blethering idiot known as James Allen.. Martins just finished telling us how button has retired as we watch him strolling up the pitlane... Then James comes in with "yes martin, Jensen is currently showing as running in last place.. blah .. blah.. " as if he was still running, and our man James was totally oblivious to the fact he was out..
There was also an onboard rearward facing shot from a McLaren.. "Now we're onboard with Fernando Alonso...." When you can clearly see the silver and red paint on the rear wing....
Bring back murry walker.. when he got it wrong I used to laugh.. when James does, I just cry.
I agree with Hamiltons penalty for cutting during race, and he should have just let Vettel back though, better to loose 1 place at the begining than worry about a penalty later.
I actually thought both Heikki and Piquet had a reasonable race, and I was impressed that Piquet managed to keep the faster hamilton behind him.
 
Buttongate showed how much Honda wanted him. Bet he wish he had went to Williams now.

I dont agree that going to williams would have been any better. If anything Bar Honda have done better than Williams since he has been there. The year where he was scoring podiums and best of the rest to a far in the distance ferrari, williams hasn't got near that sort of form.

I still say Honda are now better placed to get Jenson a car than Williams. Williams have little money and are a shadow of the team they used to be. They are not even a works team.

Besides jenson was never going to go to williams, that was all to do with Richards not paying jenson the wages he was owed. He had a points related pay deal and after scoring so many over expectations Richards wouldn't pay up.

Jensons manager then handed over the details to pitpass and pitpass ran the story. Jenson got his money and Richards didn't last much longer at honda. Button stayed.

Honda have been crippled by not being able to develope an under powered engine. How are they expected to catch up if they cannot change any thing other than aero and next year even that will be reduced. So they will be stuck in an under powered car.
 
Honda are better than Williams?
2008 (After 8 races) Honda - 8pt Williams - 15pt
2007 Honda - 6pt Williams 33
2006 Honda - 86 Williams 11
2005 Honda - 38 Williams 66

I know who i think has the better package, Honda have 2 great drivers who should be doing better than they are. I think Jenson would have done a lot better in the Williams, helped develop the car and maybe after a few seasons could have springboarded his way to a top team if he needed too.

The fact is though, Jenson is just a playboy, he likes his money and like the fact he is a race driver, i don't think winning is the most important thing, if it was he wouldn't be anywhere near Honda.
 
My thoughts on the race were:

Hamilton deserved the penalty, he made the pass by going into the corner way way too quickly, which is why he had to cut the chicane, thats not proper racing, just throw it into the corner, coming through ready or not. Deserved penalty. Quick enough when he was on his own, but then the mclaren is one of the best cars out there, doesnt seem to be able to "race" very well.

Ferrari, good weekend for them, i thought Kimi would have got flagged but :) he didnt.

Trulli did alright, but i think it will probably be a one off.
 
Honda are better than Williams?
2008 (After 8 races) Honda - 8pt Williams - 15pt
2007 Honda - 6pt Williams 33
2006 Honda - 86 Williams 11
2005 Honda - 38 Williams 66

I know who i think has the better package, Honda have 2 great drivers who should be doing better than they are. I think Jenson would have done a lot better in the Williams, helped develop the car and maybe after a few seasons could have springboarded his way to a top team if he needed too.

The fact is though, Jenson is just a playboy, he likes his money and like the fact he is a race driver, i don't think winning is the most important thing, if it was he wouldn't be anywhere near Honda.

The difference is look at when honda got it almost right 86 to 11. That was right after the contract wrangle. Didn't look so stupid then did it?

I say again how can Jenson develope the car when the engine progress has stopped. The year they did well was before the developement ban and honda went balls out with the revs. When the 2 race rule came in they had to wind it right down through reliability worries. They have never recovered. Jenson has no input into the aero, nor does any other driver other than giving feedback on feel, understeer oversteer etc. If mistakes are made in the wind tunnel he cant do anything about that and thats where the problems for BAR/Honda have been.

Then you have Williams, they haven't done a thing in 10 years. They wont either while they are sister team to toyota. You really think toyota will let williams win 5 races in a season when they are winning nothing? Toyota will not take that sort of humiliation ever.

I fail to see where Jenson could go and have a realistic chance of winning, other than to sit it out and hope the team comes good under brawn. The best hope is a rule change and freedom to develope the engine.
 
I agree with your entire post, except for this:

I fail to see where Jenson could go and have a realistic chance of winning, other than to sit it out and hope the team comes good under brawn.

If he was truly competitive/ambitious and believed 100% in his own ability (like Hamilton and Senna, before him), then he would ditch Honda, knowing that they are going absolutely nowhere for the forseeable future.

Last year, when Alonso left McLaren, he could've fought tooth and nail to get the vacant McLaren seat, even if he arrived as a No.2, with an agreement not to race Hamilton. He seems good at negotiating good salaries, so I have no doubt he couldve arranged something, even if it meant driving for pennies. This would at least have got him a good car and even if he had to play second fiddle to Hamilton, when Hamilton crashed out, he couldve taken the race by the scruff of the neck and got a podium. Eventually, for 2009, McLaren wouldve given Button the backing he needed.

However, for all of the above to happen, he would need to have an overwhelming desire to win at any cost - which we know he doesnt. Furthermore, he would need to have an unshakable belief in his ability (to go up against Hamilton) - which once again, he probably doesnt have.

Even if Button were to have an epiphony and change his ways, he could still negotiate himself into a better team than Honda, for 2009. If he is persuasive, he might even get into McLaren, if Heikki continues on his low point scoring form. He could also have a chance to join Renault in 2009. There are options, but he has to be totally committed.

Senna, famously came on national TV in 1992 and stated that he would drive for Williams for free. Now thats what I call dedication to cause of winning at any cost. Thats the sort of commitment that any team boss will take notice of. In fact 1.5yrs later, he was a Williams driver.
 
McLaren haven't done a thing in 10 years neither :confused:

Eh? Last year they had the best car on the grid. Both drivers 1 point away from the summit. This year, they have 2nd best car.

I would say thats not bad.

All they need now is some strong leadership and a rock solid driver, which Hamilton might be.
 
re: Silverstone

Can't wait till Thursday when I'm going to the test :D This will be my third in a row :)
 
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