Poll: Who believes in God?

[Inquisitor]

Why though, I'll never understand why people believe in something that is completely illogical.

Has it ever occurred to you that it may not be illogical to someone else who makes different assumptions and has different experiences?

I've said it before and i'll say it again, if you follow any religion you are not believing in a God you are just believing what other people have told you to believe in. Which is not belief or faith it's just mindless obedience.

Most people do not follow religions because they are there and have been told to (well, in the Western world at least). Rather they follow a religion because it has personal meaning for them. If you talked to loads of Christians about their beliefs, you'd find that most of them are slightly different from each other.

Someone once told me - two topics you never discuss with friends.... Politics and Religion.

Some good advice I tend to agree with and I try not to discuss the latter wherever possible.

Wise words I think.

 

[Shoseki]

Skyfall : People aren't logical, life isn't logical... life is entirely chaotic, even if it has base rules...

Unless you are telling me that there is a scientific reason for the precise order and nature of everything in the universe, including each and every post in this thread...

 

[yantorsen]

If he is all powerful then he must be able to sin, cf the paradox of a rock so heavy that God cannot lift it.

yes "physically" able, but doesn't mean he will actually do it.

 

[yantorsen]

Jesus seperating the seas so the israelites could walk through

lol, no he didn't, please get your facts about the bible right before you knock it.

 

[yantorsen]

So correct me where I have been wrong.

I seriously can't be bothered, it would take too long.

 

[V4NT0M]

Skyfall : People aren't logical, life isn't logical... life is entirely chaotic, even if it has base rules...

I guess I just don't fit in, because I just don't get why people are so illogical, i understand they are but it makes no sense to be illogical.

Surely you look at the information you have and make a decision based on that, rather than just being random.

I just don't get it

 

[Inquisitor]

Surely you look at the information you have and make a decision based on that, rather than just being random.

That's exactly what a religious person is doing

It may seem stupid to you but then the converse is probably also true.

 

[yantorsen]

I sometimes wonder whether people are deliberately being obtuse and facetious in these arguments or whether they're so blinded by their own arrogance and narrow-mindednes they genuinely can't understand

This. TBH.

 

[wedgie]

Interesting vid. It's extremely one sided, but it happens to be the side I agree with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

 

[Mansize_tissue]

Interesting vid. It's extremely one sided, but it happens to be the side I agree with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

Very interesting indeed; it mimics my thoughts, too.

 

[GreenMint]

Yes.

 

[wedgie]

There's a good Penn and Teller video from their BS series, can't really direct link to it. Put 'Penn Teller Bible' into Youtube and it's the first hit.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Interesting vid. It's extremely one sided, but it happens to be the side I agree with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

Extremely one sided? That's putting it mildly.

I'm now listening to the "answers" and aside from him repeating himself irritatingly throughout the video he appears to be forgetting the main point of a faith - namely that it requires no proof or evidence. In fact the more I listen the more I dislike the man, not least because he seems to assume he has the only truth when that is simply not so - he (and the people who write the website) have their version of truth, that does not make it correct, that does not even make it right, it just means that they have something that makes sense to them which is precisely the same (and therefore as "right") as what other people believe in this arena even though it may disagree with his beliefs.

 

[uknowist]

Google is God

Proof

and be honest how many of you non believers always suggest google to the answer to anything and everything on these forums

google owns

 

[finga]

dont believe in God, religion was created to give people a sense of worth and morals along with a way to control masses in a world where every disagreement was sorted by the death of one of the partys, I think people needed an explanation as to why we exist and in them days that was easier to believe, people thought the world was flat back then!
I think zeitgeist the movie was probably quite close to explaining religion

there are a lot of phenomenon occurring around the globe but none of it points to there being a God, and if there was, how the hell could he have got it so wrong, he played the jesus card thousands of years too early

 

[wedgie]

Extremely one sided? That's putting it mildly.

I'm now listening to the "answers" and aside from him repeating himself irritatingly throughout the video he appears to be forgetting the main point of a faith - namely that it requires no proof or evidence. In fact the more I listen the more I dislike the man, not least because he seems to assume he has the only truth when that is simply not so - he (and the people who write the website) have their version of truth, that does not make it correct, that does not even make it right, it just means that they have something that makes sense to them which is precisely the same (and therefore as "right") as what other people believe in this arena even though it may disagree with his beliefs.

Oh I know, I wasn't for a second suggesting that was an argument ending video, it was just something I came accross so I posted it. There's actually a response video to it as well, which I think most people on the other side of the fence will find deals with it adequately.

My problems with religion go far beyond the pretty basic questions posed in the vid, but that and the response vid do highlight that it is essentially an impossible argument for a non believer to win. I don't think there's anything you could put to a religious person that they wouldn't be able to come up with a religious explanation that they deemed satisfactory. I just don't think they're open to any explanation other than one they can find within their own belief.

Which brings us to the bible itself; there are so many holes in it that it's amazing anyone gives it a single shred of credibility. It's no more than the writings of primitive (basically stupid) men. Men that took almost everything at face value (although strangely enough one of the most common defences of the bible is that you don't take it at face value). You don't have to go too far back to find people being burned at the steak for being witches. Go back a couple thousand years and we're getting to the time where almost anything significant happening was seen as the direct hand of God. Some civilizations even had different Gods within the same religion. Hot summer, need rain, give God a call. And of course when it inevitibly does rain, it's Gods work. My point is, to put it kindly these people were stupid. I need much, much more than the words of frankly a bunch of idiots 2000+ years ago to go by if I'm going to accept religion. The bible is no more believable to me as it is with millions subscribing to it, than it would be if it existed but not a single person took it seriously. But the fact that so many people do hold it in high regard makes it very believable for anyone looking to believe it.

And then the final nail in the coffin. Let's say that even with all the inconsistencies within the same religion, one of them is actually true. At most it can only be one, so we can already say of all the religions, all but one is BS. That leaves a whole lot of people who would die for what they believe wrong already. Either you have to pray 10 times a day to get to heaven or you don't, either you have to accept Jesus to get to heaven or you don't. I just don't see this middle ground that even many religious people seem to fall in.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, like I said, I don't think that's possible. Those are just some of the more immediate things that come to mind when I consider religion.

 

[Mr^B]

People seem to be confusing the concept of "God" with that of "religion".

God as a creator is a wholly logical concept, discount the fact that he appears in human texts in human form, that's your own prejudices coming from earth religions. Somehow the laws of physics were created, somehow EVERYTHING was created, even if it's merely physical laws and then a "big bang" button was pushed just to see if it would all work out.

ANY scientist will accede to this fact, there's a point where the laws they are studying would either break down completely (inside a black-hole) or not apply (pre-big-bang conditions). Hawking has a whole chapter in "Brief History" regarding God's place in the universe...

We're arguing metaphysics here, NOT religion. Anyone who brings up religion in a debate about "God" is already biased. God does not need religion, but religion needs God.

 

[RDM]

I seriously can't be bothered, it would take too long.

In other words you can't. If you are just going to make rubbish up, why should anyone listen to you?

 

[finga]

People seem to be confusing the concept of "God" with that of "religion".

God as a creator is a wholly logical concept, discount the fact that he appears in human texts in human form, that's your own prejudices coming from earth religions. Somehow the laws of physics were created, somehow EVERYTHING was created, even if it's merely physical laws and then a "big bang" button was pushed just to see if it would all work out.

ANY scientist will accede to this fact, there's a point where the laws they are studying would either break down completely (inside a black-hole) or not apply (pre-big-bang conditions). Hawking has a whole chapter in "Brief History" regarding God's place in the universe...

We're arguing metaphysics here, NOT religion. Anyone who brings up religion in a debate about "God" is already biased. God does not need religion, but religion needs God.

good point, but surely then even God would need to have been created

 

[nightwish]

Somehow the laws of physics were created, somehow EVERYTHING was created, even if it's merely physical laws and then a "big bang" button was pushed just to see if it would all work out.

Not necessarily true... not if the universe is really infinite and has existed for ever... something with no beginning doesn't need to be created. Mind-bending stuff to be sure!

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that when scientists like Stephen Hawking talk about God, they're ususally talking in very metorphorical terms... not in the same way as you or I think of God, but more as a thought exercise and a way of considering the big questions like "where did the universe come from" in a form that normal people can understand.