Conspiracy Files: The Third Tower

[aardvark]

can we have a poll, and then anybody who votes for a conspiracy gets banned???

 

[UnusualSuspect]

so in conclusion - people who believe in conspiracy theories are complete retards.

i think thats about covered it.

So you think that Governments are completely honest and trustworthy, would never put a foot in the wrong place, and only have your best interests at heart? Obviously, people with that much power would never use it to their own advantage. Hell no. People are all nice, right?

 

[Hxc]

So you think that Governments are completely honest and trustworthy, would never put a foot in the wrong place, and only have your best interests at heart? Obviously, people with that much power would never use it to their own advantage. Hell no. People are all nice, right?

You are the typical conspiracy theorist; when people present direct evidence, you go off talking about something else.

Good work

 

[Glaucus]

So you think that Governments are completely honest and trustworthy, would never put a foot in the wrong place, and only have your best interests at heart? Obviously, people with that much power would never use it to their own advantage. Hell no. People are all nice, right?

Of course we don't. The US actually planned to launch missiles at one of there own ships of the cost of cuba so they could go to war.

However your CT have no evidence and offer no prove apart from what you think should have happened. Like it shouldn't of fallen staright down. Yet we provide evidence that's exactly how it should have fallen.

 

[andyp]

So you think that Governments are completely honest and trustworthy, would never put a foot in the wrong place, and only have your best interests at heart? Obviously, people with that much power would never use it to their own advantage. Hell no. People are all nice, right?

Ah, the stock answer of someone who has no ******* idea of the real world and follows the herd because that seems the 'thing' to do.

You sound silly - take my advice and shut up before you make it any worse.

 

[JBuk]

Fair enough, I'm not arguing that. But what about the 90 floors below which aren't damaged or on fire? That still retain their strength and integrity, are designed for stresses way over what they're likely to encounter, and are highly likely to slow the progress of any collapse from above?

When one of the towers started to collapse, it started to collapse naturally. The top went for the path of least resistance and tilted over to one side. Then all of a sudden, every floor went down in a domino effect at almost freefall speed, which is so unlikely to happen its laughable, and the tilted top went down with it.

why is it laughable?

its quite sensible, top floor collapses onto second adding more weight than the columns were designed to hold at those particular points, this added with the extra force due to the velocity of the fall causes the next floor to fail which carries onto the next floor, so now we have the weight of 2 floors falling onto the next ,and so on... not to mention the loss in strength of columns because the floor above is already missing

 

[andyp]

The US actually planned to launch missiles at one of there own ships of the cost of cuba so they could go to war.

Northwoods needs to be taken in context.

Very very much in context.

So much so, in fact, that the way in which the conspiract theorists have twisted it so much out of contex makes it laughable.

 

[UnusualSuspect]

Well the top steel supports were seriously weakened by the fire, probably around 25% of their original strength, and with the impact also taking away structual integrity; one floor eventually broke away and fell downward, onto another weakened floor...which itself collapsed... see what's happening here? It IS a domino effect.

But its not like a string of dominos, it would be more like:

Fall...Hit...Break
Fall...Hit....Break
Fall...Hit......Break
Fall...Hit...........Break

You see what I'm saying? The floors would fall and hit the floor beneath. The floor would take the impact then crack and the fall would continue. The combined floors would hit the next floor which would take the impact and slow it a touch more, then that would give way to the next floor and so on and so forth.

Imagine it as a bullet fired through multiple sheets of metal. The bullet slows down with each impact until it can't progress any further.

Instead, all three buildings fell at almost free fall speed - as in, there was very little slowing down the rate of descent.

 

[Glaucus]

But its not like a string of dominos, it would be more like:

Fall...Hit...Break
Fall...Hit....Break
Fall...Hit......Break
Fall...Hit...........Break

You see what I'm saying? The floors would fall and hit the floor beneath. The floor would take the impact then crack and the fall would continue. The combined floors would hit the next floor which would take the impact and slow it a touch more, then that would give way to the next floor and so on and so forth.

Imagine it as a bullet fired through multiple sheets of metal. The bullet slows down with each impact until it can't progress any further.

Instead, all three buildings fell at almost free fall speed - as in, there was very little slowing down the rate of descent.

FFS read that bloody pdf..

That is not how it happens. The KE increases with every floor. The maths shows this. It doesn't matter what you think. The physics shows that the energy increases with every floor and thus gains momentum.

Now start using some logic and go read up on the subject.

 

[UnusualSuspect]

why is it laughable?

its quite sensible, top floor collapses onto second adding more weight than the columns were designed to hold at those particular points, this added with the extra force due to the velocity of the fall causes the next floor to fail which carries onto the next floor, so now we have the weight of 2 floors falling onto the next ,and so on... not to mention the loss in strength of columns because the floor above is already missing

But the columns are already designed to hold up the entire weight of whats above it, plus a hell of a lot more because its designed to take plane impacts, earthquakes and hurricanes. So I can't imagine how a few floors crashing downwards is going to have such a destructive effect. Remember, no Skyscraper - ever - has had this happen, even when they've been burning for well over 24 hours.

 

[wedgie]

But its not like a string of dominos, it would be more like:

Fall...Hit...Break
Fall...Hit....Break
Fall...Hit......Break
Fall...Hit...........Break

You see what I'm saying? The floors would fall and hit the floor beneath. The floor would take the impact then crack and the fall would continue. The combined floors would hit the next floor which would take the impact and slow it a touch more, then that would give way to the next floor and so on and so forth.

Imagine it as a bullet fired through multiple sheets of metal. The bullet slows down with each impact until it can't progress any further.

Instead, all three buildings fell at almost free fall speed - as in, there was very little slowing down the rate of descent.

Assumptions, nothing more.

You assume it should happen one way and run with it. Maybe those assumptions are logical in some sense, but to then completely ignore all evidence that suggests anything else is just dumb.

Common sense goes straight out of the window when you want to believe in something enough.

 

[Hxc]

But the columns are already designed to hold up the entire weight of whats above it, plus a hell of a lot more because its designed to take plane impacts, earthquakes and hurricanes. So I can't imagine how a few floors crashing downwards is going to have such a destructive effect. Remember, no Skyscraper - ever - has had this happen, even when they've been burning for well over 24 hours.

No skyscraper that has gone down has ever been designed remotely like WTC.

 

[Glaucus]

But the columns are already designed to hold up the entire weight of whats above it, plus a hell of a lot more because its designed to take plane impacts, earthquakes and hurricanes. So I can't imagine how a few floors crashing downwards is going to have such a destructive effect. Remember, no Skyscraper - ever - has had this happen, even when they've been burning for well over 24 hours.

Falling weight is many times more than static weight. You really have no clue...

 

[Energize]

But its not like a string of dominos, it would be more like:

Fall...Hit...Break
Fall...Hit....Break
Fall...Hit......Break
Fall...Hit...........Break

You see what I'm saying? The floors would fall and hit the floor beneath. The floor would take the impact then crack and the fall would continue. The combined floors would hit the next floor which would take the impact and slow it a touch more, then that would give way to the next floor and so on and so forth.

Wrong, the terminal velocity and momentum increases with mass.

 

[JBuk]

But its not like a string of dominos, it would be more like:

Fall...Hit...Break
Fall...Hit....Break
Fall...Hit......Break
Fall...Hit...........Break

You see what I'm saying? The floors would fall and hit the floor beneath. The floor would take the impact then crack and the fall would continue. The combined floors would hit the next floor which would take the impact and slow it a touch more, then that would give way to the next floor and so on and so forth.

Imagine it as a bullet fired through multiple sheets of metal. The bullet slows down with each impact until it can't progress any further.

Instead, all three buildings fell at almost free fall speed - as in, there was very little slowing down the rate of descent.

you have it so wrong, the floors would not cope with the forces and help to decelerate the collapse.

the bullet analogy is flawed as it would lose energy , the building collapse has mavity affecting it 100% of the time

 

[Hxc]

Also how "almost" is your "almost freefall" falling of the floors?

What's all that debris around the towers being much much further down than the actual structure?

 

[NathanE]

Most 9/11 conspiracy theorists failed their high school physics science course. I know this because otherwise they wouldn't be confused as to why the towers fell down or why steel loses its stength or why jets of smoke were being emitted from the tower as it fell. They would also immediately understand such things as: plane flies into a skyscaper and the forces exerted are in the "chaos theory" level of scale, resulting in major structural beams literally snapping instantly (and sounding like an explosion in the process...) and later on as the tower sways and heats up further. They'd understand that these could occur at any point in the building, anywhere where there is a slight weakness will pop first. So that's why explosions could be heard coming from underneath the WTCs.

 

[Mad old tory]

nonsense

I have a Tshirt with unusual suspect on it. Also has the characters of Sesame Street on it; that's roughly the level of your argument, although Big Bird probably knows more about physics than you.

 

[UnusualSuspect]

"Collapse of any modern steel structure is highly unusual, and collapses caused primarily by fire simply do not occur. The design of the WTC towers was intended to be survivable even in the event of an airliner impact."

.. from some random website I just googled.

I've had too much wine and am too tired to carry this on. So keep on wearing them rose coloured sunglasses, cos everything will be fine.

 

[aslco]

Okay so riddle me this, 9/11, the moon landings annd a bunch of other shizz goes down as being the aemrican government.

WHY