The GTX 260 is faster than 4870

[mrk]

exactly, you dont seem to be distressed at all since your happy with your purchase. but some people are getting upset probably because they wanted a gtx260 but at the time it costed a fair bit more than the 4870, so now they try and put the gtx260 down every chance they get.

thats just plain wrong.

Why would they want a GTX260 anyway even if it is the same price as a 4870? there's more future proofing in a 4870 and it has better resale value. Just how much has a 4870 dropped in price since release? and then look at how much a GTX2xx has dropped!

Point proven

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Get a grip. We can respect his opinion whilst also disagreeing with it.

I don't doubt he's spent a great deal of time benchmarking nor do I doubt that he has made his GTX260 run faster than his 4870 in many of those tests. I do, however, have issues with him drawing general conclusions on the overclockability of these cards in general from a single example of each and I also had issues with his original suite of benchmarks, which have now been expanded slightly.

I am just as entitled to post my opinions as he is. Just because some of us disagree doesn't mean we don't respect him nor does it mean we're not entitled to post here.

disagreeing with the op and his tests is fine, but its the way some people are disagreeing with him,. they seem to be more about flaming him about his tests and results. everyone is entitled to thier opinion, after all thats what forums are all about.

 

[queamin]

seems like a lot of 4870 users are upset by nvidias price drops. willhub, you already mentioned to me that you were trying to return your 4870 for a refund after owning it for 3 weeks and that says a lot about how you seem to find you 4870.

a lot of 4870 owners have gone into defensive mode now that the gtx260 is the same price as a 4870. as for your 8800gt to a 4870 willhub, note that the op mentioned that the loading of games could be attributed to the additional memory the gtx260 has.

and as for nvidias driver problem, the main one that happens is that if you overclock your card too much that error turns up. i can easily replicate it on my 8800gt and the old 8600gt by just sticking the core clock to 800mhz on each card and run any 3d app and the error springs up. overclock too much on the nvidia cards and you will see that error pop up.

your overclocking testing methods on the 8800gt were a joke, you mentioned you run the lord of the rings trilogy in High definition after and overclock to check the cards for stability. thats just a complete joke and everyone on here will agree with me.

and recently your running 10 min furmark test for stability when i have told you thats not long enough to guage proper stability.

the OP has done a very good review on this thread with his opinion on the cards he has owned. if you cant respect his opinions then i ask you, why do you even bother to post in this thread? only reason i can think of is that your trying to defend your purchase of the 4870. is it really that bad a card that you have to go to such extreme lengths to defend it?

If he had done a more balanced review first off, then maybe the 4870 owners might have not got defensive i.e 2 benchmarks and the one game the is way into nvidia's favour what is really playing into gtx260 strong points.
If he had done a few other games to start with then maybe it could be called a balanced review.
Also saying nvidia don't have a lot of problems with drivers is wrong,they are bad as each other really.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...t-paints-picture-of-buggy-nvidia-drivers.html

Microsoft's data strongly indicates that the problems were real. Damon Poeter at CRN dug through the documention to find that on page 47 of the PDF, NVIDIA drivers were identified as the cause of over 479,000 crashes, or just under 29 percent of all the crashes Microsoft logged. Microsoft's own drivers follow, at 17.9 percent, and the "Unknown" category takes third place at 17 percent. ATI is in fourth place (9.3 percent) and Intel in fifth place (8.83 percent).

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Why would they want a GTX260 anyway even if it is the same price as a 4870?

that list could end up quite big. the main selling point of the gtx260 is the larger memory, and as in relation to the threads OP, a better gaming experience.

one thing that really sets the gtx260 out from the 4870 is CUDA support.

what people need to see is that cuda does not just equal to physx. physx is a very small part of what cuda can be used for. with cuda nvidia have provided a way for users of thier cards to use the gpu in more than just games. people who like me have old cpu's could well do with just a gpu upgrade that helps out with video encoding and even in gaming the cuda assist can make systems with low powered cpus able to have a better gaming experience.

then there is the personal preference side to things. if i had to choose between the 4870 and the gtx260 id go for the nvidia counterpart simply because they have working simple method to apply game specific profiles.

each to their own at the end of the day.

 

[MR.B]

I do, however, have issues with him drawing general conclusions on the overclockability of these cards in general from a single example of each and I also had issues with his original suite of benchmarks, which have now been expanded slightly.

I didn't draw a conclusion of how well these cards overclock from single examples, that would be stupid. Before i got the 260 i done a lot of research on overclocking results, and it wasn't at all rare for people to get over 700MHz core, my OC is pretty average. Thats also the reason i OC'd it straight out of the box.

Same with the 4870, my OC is pretty average with that aswell.


Anyway i've been playing with my 4870X2 tonight and so far no odd crashes like the 4870... bet it happens now i said that. Early days yet.

...Also it's just a bit powerful.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

I didn't draw a conclusion of how well these cards overclock from single examples, that would be stupid. Before i got the 260 i done a lot of research on overclocking results, and it wasn't at all rare for people to get over 700MHz core, my OC is pretty average.

Same with the 4870, my OC is pretty average with that aswell.


Anyway i've been playing with my X2 tonight and so far no odd crashes like the 4870... bet it happens now i said that. Early days yet.

...Also it's just a bit powerful.

odd crashes on your 4870??: what were the vrm temps at?

 

[asim18]

Wow, and I was this "." close to buying a 4870. Thank god I didn't!

Thanks for this review MR.B.

 

[willhub]

seems like a lot of 4870 users are upset by nvidias price drops. willhub, you already mentioned to me that you were trying to return your 4870 for a refund after owning it for 3 weeks and that says a lot about how you seem to find you 4870.

a lot of 4870 owners have gone into defensive mode now that the gtx260 is the same price as a 4870. as for your 8800gt to a 4870 willhub, note that the op mentioned that the loading of games could be attributed to the additional memory the gtx260 has.

and as for nvidias driver problem, the main one that happens is that if you overclock your card too much that error turns up. i can easily replicate it on my 8800gt and the old 8600gt by just sticking the core clock to 800mhz on each card and run any 3d app and the error springs up. overclock too much on the nvidia cards and you will see that error pop up.

your overclocking testing methods on the 8800gt were a joke, you mentioned you run the lord of the rings trilogy in High definition after and overclock to check the cards for stability. thats just a complete joke and everyone on here will agree with me.

and recently your running 10 min furmark test for stability when i have told you thats not long enough to guage proper stability.

the OP has done a very good review on this thread with his opinion on the cards he has owned. if you cant respect his opinions then i ask you, why do you even bother to post in this thread? only reason i can think of is that your trying to defend your purchase of the 4870. is it really that bad a card that you have to go to such extreme lengths to defend it?

Just cause I dont run furmark for 10 billion hours did not mean my card was unstable. For you info when I changed drivers I never EVER got that well known NV error anymore, it was nothing to do with overclocks.

Whats this lord of the rings trilogy? I've had no such games and if I choose to test my overclock my playing games what the ******* thing is meant for then I will, fine you sit there watching a fluffy doughnuts spin around for 8 hours if you want to.

CUDA for gamers means nothing at this point, if someone gets ATi drivers to do it which has been done before then you'll proberbly make something up to say its still crappy. You think a couple of games suddenly changed everything, nope it does not. But I hear you play warmonger all the time and sit there twiddling your thumbs to PhysX demo's and fluffy doughnuts so ummm yea......

Mr.B if you where having odd crashes on the 4870 it must have been faulty tbh, especially if the 4870X2 is working fine since thats just 2 4870's slapped on one card....

that list could end up quite big. the main selling point of the gtx260 is the larger memory, and as in relation to the threads OP, a better gaming experience.

one thing that really sets the gtx260 out from the 4870 is CUDA support.

what people need to see is that cuda does not just equal to physx. physx is a very small part of what cuda can be used for. with cuda nvidia have provided a way for users of thier cards to use the gpu in more than just games. people who like me have old cpu's could well do with just a gpu upgrade that helps out with video encoding and even in gaming the cuda assist can make systems with low powered cpus able to have a better gaming experience.

then there is the personal preference side to things. if i had to choose between the 4870 and the gtx260 id go for the nvidia counterpart simply because they have working simple method to apply game specific profiles.

each to their own at the end of the day.

Or just use your Q6600.....

What I get from you is that CUDA suddenly makes Nvidia the only choice and that CUDA is so amazing and its changed everything, its not and wont for some times, you seem to think ATi made a bad decision going with Havok but with the amount of games using that too I hardly see that been the case, they have intel to back them too and with the stuff might be releasing it sounds like its good things to come.

And either with PhysX your 8800GT is struggling you'll have to get a GTX280 its the only decent card from NV at the moment.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

CUDA for gamers means nothing at this point......

Or just use your Q6600.....

thats what your alays seem to not understand. CUDA means far more then just games my man, if people just want to use thier gpu's for only gaming then thats fair play to them. but there are people out there that want more from thier gpu's than just gaming, and nvidia has provided them with this, via cuda. remember, physx is just a tiny bit of what cuda can do for gpu based processing. i personally see cuda as being as big a leap from when the maths co processor first debuted.

as for using my q6600. that cuda based badaboom encoder makes my q6600 look like a 386. you have to understand that there may be 2 or 3 more people out there that use their computers for more than just gaming

 

[AWPC]

Wow, and I was this "." close to buying a 4870. Thank god I didn't!

Thanks for this review MR.B.

If I were you do a few searches on this forum for 4870 and you will see it is a better card. Shader based AA means almost performance free AA(no NV card has this). DX10.1 (again no NV card has this). Remember all current NV cards are technically obsolete and in a month or 2 NV will be releasing updated models so the current range values will plummet yet ATI cards will hold their values better.

 

[willhub]

thats what your alays seem to not understand. CUDA means far more then just games my man, if people just want to use thier gpu's for only gaming then thats fair play to them. but there are people out there that want more from thier gpu's than just gaming, and nvidia has provided them with this, via cuda. remember, physx is just a tiny bit of what cuda can do for gpu based processing. i personally see cuda as being as big a leap from when the maths co processor first debuted.

as for using my q6600. that cuda based badaboom encoder makes my q6600 look like a 386. you have to understand that there may be 2 or 3 more people out there that use their computers for more than just gaming

You compleatly missed what I said....

I did not say CUDA means nothing, I said Cuda for Gamers means nothing at this point....

I'm sure there is a lot of people like me who have no interest for CUDA outside of games.

Read that.

If I were you do a few searches on this forum for 4870 and you will see it is a better card. Shader based AA means almost performance free AA(no NV card has this). DX10.1 (again no NV card has this). Remember all current NV cards are technically obsolete and in a month or 2 NV will be releasing updated models so the current range values will plummet yet ATI cards will hold their values better.

Depends when the ATi new cards come out.

And as the GTX260/280 falls big time in value so will the 4870/4850 resale as if a GTX260 was £30 lower than a 4870 then it would deffo be a no brainer to get the GTX260. The only way you could try and get its current resale value when die shrinks of the GTX260/280 come out is to try flog it to someone who dont know anything on the bay.

 

[J.D]

I've been playing with my 4870X2 tonight and so far no odd crashes like the 4870... bet it happens now i said that. Early days yet.

...Also it's just a bit powerful.

Great news. I hope it lasts and you get to enjoy the card this time.

Maybe Willhub has a point. What if the cards you had previously were faulty?. Or maybe it's an external Crossfire issue where the X2 4870 is internal and the conflict is gone?. Who knows but happy days in comparison with 4870 round one .

A bit powerful?. I never expected to hear that after you trying Crossfire 4870 .

 

[Cyber-Mav]

You compleatly missed what I said....

I did not say CUDA means nothing, I said Cuda for Gamers means nothing at this point....

Read that.

and you seemed to have missed the point where i mentioned that some people may use thier pc's for more than just gaming.

 

[willhub]

and you seemed to have missed the point where i mentioned that some people may use thier pc's for more than just gaming.

I use my PC's for more than gaming, nothing that will use CUDA though.

I'm not that interested in CUDA at the moment its offering nothing to me, I'll be interested in it if it can do things for me like make my bed, brush my teeth, serve me bed and breakfast etc..... but thats all.

 

[asim18]

Shader based AA means almost performance free AA(no NV card has this).

"Shader based AA" means ****-all according to this:

Lost Planet :
@ 1600x1200, highest settings, 16xAF + 4xAA

OC'd 4870 =
Would not run with AA enabled...

OC'd GTX 260 =
Snow = 32FPS
Cave = 35FPS

 

[Cyber-Mav]

I'm not that interested in CUDA at the moment its offering nothing to me, I'll be interested in it if it can do things for me like make my bed, brush my teeth, serve me bed and breakfast etc..... but thats all.

it will never do those things for ya, not while your in the red corner anyway.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Shader based AA means almost performance free AA(no NV card has this)

hence why ati dont want to support cuda, doing shader based AA they dont have any shader cycles free to use for in game physics acceleration. if ati dont want to use cuda then the least they can do is make better use or even full use of their hardware. they have a so called "tessalation engine" sitting in their gpu's doing nothing. the least they can do is pull out some games or gather up some support for it.

 

[Tute]

Wow, and I was this "." close to buying a 4870. Thank god I didn't!

Thanks for this review MR.B.

I would seriously hope to god that you go and read up on all this, look at benchmarks etc.

No matter what twist the OP and the rest of the green followers (and there are a few in the thread) put on it, the 4870 is the faster card, the cheaper card, and as a purchase, the better choice.

 

[mrk]

"Shader based AA" means ****-all according to this:

Lost planet is an nVidia game for a start...

 

[J.D]

I use my PC's for more than gaming, nothing that will use CUDA though.

Majority of us feel the same Will. It brings nothing to the table that most of us will take advantage of. Even if CUDA was launched with G80 GTX in November '06. It would mean nothing to most on these boards. Just as useful for the majority like a 4Ghz Quad core Vs 4Ghz Dual is in games .

I had to download that game "Warmonger" to see if the Physx driver worked. It did and the gains I got were impressive . Game lasted 10 mins and nothing else I have installed or will be playing that will need Physx. Even UT3 when I played on that I never felt at any time that I was missing out because I never had a PPU so I've never felt the burn of not having this in my gaming. When it is widely supported/adopted then both Nvidia and ATI (AMD) will have the capabilities to do this.

For those that enjoy Physx games, would see a great leap in a hobby or work related task then yes, this is something that would really seal the deal between Nvidia and ATI. For the majority of us though, it won't............for now.