The future of gaming coming soon, CLOUD base rendering!!!!

dvdbunny said:
nikebee

I am incredibly excited about this, I have waited for what seems like a life time for this day when games become like movies. This thread should be a sticky, we as gamers should promote this, get every internet site talking about this as this is the future of gaming and like AMD said it's not 7 years in the future it is NOW.
Click to expand...

This doesnt look like a fun game, for starters its not got any funky new control scheme, norr will the controls be instant, theres going to be some lag between user movements and onscreen movements(fail.) which the 'gamers' should be easily able to identify.

Besides, what kind of sad ****s is this 'game' going to attract? its basically a new second life, which is already sad enough.
Why dont they make something entertaining?

This could only be useful for virtual tours or something, waste money much AMD?
 
unless you get a sniper rifle and can shoot ppl in their apartments from a building rooftop or somewhere...i dont see much point in this.

just think.....some guy goes pays thousands for his luxurious apartment and gets it all kitted out with top class furniture...then u shoot him from your apartment and spill his blood all over his new furniture.
 
Sorry guys, but really these latest updates i have been posting deserves a new thread. What i have posted lately has nothing to do with a server farm, nothing to do with cloud rendering. I did try changing this thread title but it wouldn't change, anybody know how to do it?

The above videos don't mention anything about the OTOY cloud rendering. It's basically about cinema 2.0, how they have created photo realistic graphics for games and movies and want to make games and movies in a whole new way. This is all entirely possible for people with fast computers with their latest AMD graphics cards. This level of detail is now, but for cloud rendering that would be sometime in the future when we have ultra fast internet.
 
dvdbunny said:
Sorry guys, but really these latest updates i have been posting deserves a new thread. What i have posted lately has nothing to do with a server farm, nothing to do with cloud rendering. I did try changing this thread title but it wouldn't change, anybody know how to do it?
Click to expand...

instructions are here
 
peetee said:
This doesnt look like a fun game, for starters its not got any funky new control scheme, norr will the controls be instant, theres going to be some lag between user movements and onscreen movements(fail.) which the 'gamers' should be easily able to identify.

Besides, what kind of sad ****s is this 'game' going to attract? its basically a new second life, which is already sad enough.
Why dont they make something entertaining?

This could only be useful for virtual tours or something, waste money much AMD?
Click to expand...

Yeah what a waste of money AMD, just look how unsuccessful second life is.
 
wow you guys are such pessimists, you sound like my technophobe of a father.

Jessica Fletchers type writer would be turning over in its grave right now. you should be ashamed.

tried and tested before my ***.

- first of all streamed video has only been done for the last 2-3 years.
- second of all the technology both server side and transfer side was both methodologically and technically incapable
- your arguments of lag is no different to when the first mmo came online and the grand pa's were screaming "omg it will ruin refresh rate, it will lag when you want to turn left!" and where are those arguments now? thats right - 7 foot under.
- your judging this thing for its graphics and how it will perform - but you dont even have the faintest idea of what hardware and software has been created for this - this is using multi processor technology to its fullest here with AMD's engineers contributing a large part of the process - they know what they are doing and they are not making this **** up. there was a god damn video of him moving it around in real time connected to his server in california! HELLO!? Whats important is how they made it, what they understand of the process used to create it and how those processes can be replicated and improved over time. Think of this as the next step of mmo's but with a whole different approach to the installation. they have already said you dont install anything other than your dumb browser - so what technological aspects do you have to worry about when they are confident they have sorted the technology on their end. quote from the otoy themselves:

The 14 mins of real time rendering in this material is streaming live to a Treo 700 at 240 kpbs. This was captured on March 2007, the server was running an ATI RX 1900 GPU. The tech has improved massively since then (as has the HW we now run on).
Click to expand...

240 kbps! read that? heck iphone does faster than that. my internet does 8mbps so what have I gotta care about?

the only thing that will be a real issue is the sustaining of the project which Im sure is to be insanely expensive, but this project will help ATI a shed load in the future. Leasing out this application to third parties for games on the xbox would be amazing, xbox live would have no problems connecting to these servers and having them streamed to your xbox, not only that but it could also be a good oppertunity for microsoft to put a browser in your box.

This method of design is blatantly the way forward. To those saying youre refresh rate on your tv would slow down.... you have no idea what your talking about and should just wait for the appocolypse to occure. They've already stated it requires no special hardware - so go back to the cave.
 
My view is realism, not pessimism.

I would address your points codec but you seem blind to one side of the argument and I can only assume you'll turn it into a looping argument without a hint of coherent thought based on your post.
 
realism from a virtual world isnt possible Im affraid.

besides being realistic isnt possible when you have no fundamental evidence of it being/not being possible. and since they have evidence of it being possible, who are we to judge.
 
No ones said the refresh rate on their tv would slow down, you're incapable of reading. Simple facts, you are insanely lucky to get something along the lines of a 10ms ping time to a normal game server or anything else, average is significantly higher, i think on my connections best day at the moment I can get 14-15ms, thats not a huge problem it means other people on my screen in a game can sometimes jump about and "lag" around but because my own computer is rendering the rest I personally don't lag, i move smoothly, when the details of how you move are moved across the planet, with a 30ms to a 5000ms ping start to happen then the video lags because what you input, doesn't happen for a small amount of time, we do not have instant communication yet, not even close so this is beyond physically impossible to work instantly and uber fast with uber high bitrates.

Its all so ludicrous sounding and the hilarious thing is that it won't work well, for the dullest sounding "game" in the history of the world, except probably better than Second Life due to being newer. Its not a game, its a fake life, which most people don't want to play. There isn't a particular need in these kinds of game for lightning fast reactions like in say COD 4, and yes theoretically this can work, its just a higher bitrate prettier Second life, so what, theres nothing particularly exciting or new about any of that in my mind. But it will be slow, and things like flicking through pictures of 40 sofa's and 15 wall colours lend themselves to "slower" response technology.

But the thread is all about changing the future of gaming, this is not, this is a second generation Second Life, this is never going to replace normal gaming as it simply can't. A server, of any power and expense can not replicate, or be cheaper than 10 million Xbox 360's, pc's or ps3's. As computers move onto new technologys, carbon nano tubes, other stuff, as we get smaller and smaller, at some point we're likely to hit one "home super computer" with terminals spread across the house, like a cupboard you keep an uber computer in and every member of house has a screen, controls and can play games, music, video and surf off the same computer but different places. Thats as far as distributed computing, will go in this sense.
 
Samione said:
Yeah what a waste of money AMD, just look how unsuccessful second life is.
Click to expand...

this is supposed to compete with second life, its obviously cost a bomb to make, the supercomputing power is also going to cost a bomb, the bandwidth is going to cost a bomb.

Coupled with the fact that its not going to be anywhere near as responsive as second life etc its going to seem quite lame - its basically going to be a case of what would you rather 'play'?

A brand new WoW with mahoooooosive lag and not many people wandering about, or Runescape, with a massive community and game features already developed far beyond that of WoW.....

Ill stand by my waste of money point.

Our networks cant deal with this, it says 6mbps for perfect streaming... whats the average net speed in the UK? its a damned bit less than 6mbps, especially if you take into account the fact that if you're blasting away at 6mbps you are blatently getting capped after a day or two etc etc.
Sounds like itll degrade consumer connections more than torrent junkies.
 
Not sure why you are so excited about this dvdbunny. I suggest you have a look at second life and see for yourself how badly this server side streaming works. Welcome to the world of lag.

Have to agree with others on how much of a bad idea this is.. I really can't believe that companies are attempting to push this as the new next best thing. Imagine the amount of money needed to be invested, the amount of server side resources needed say for a drop in the ocean of a mere 150,000 users... how would the company get its money back?

This type of gaming isn't coming any time soon.
 
Last edited:
codec said:
realism from a virtual world isnt possible Im affraid.

besides being realistic isnt possible when you have no fundamental evidence of it being/not being possible. and since they have evidence of it being possible, who are we to judge.
Click to expand...

Realism as in 'realistic about the chances of success'
Rendering using ray tracing is incredibly computationaly intensive, i just knocked this up in blender
0001hq7.jpg

it took 55 seconds to render on a gts 8800. So, 25 of these would take about 23 minutes for my gts to render. 23 minutes of render time for 1 second of video. So you need something that is 1380 times faster at rendering than a gts 8800 to render in realtime for one person. Of course, they probably aren't rendering exactly in this way, but i was just making the point that it would take a massive amount of resources.
 
Last edited:
wow just look at what i found

http://innowave.blogspot.com/2008/08/liveplace-photo-realistic-virtual-world.html

Second life is already being streamed to 70 handsets, here is a quote 'Mobile phones and devices can already access virtual worlds such as Second Life on 3G networks. Vollee delivers Second Life to more than 70 handhelds by rendering it on the server side. Their Second Life iPhone client is in beta.'

and here http://www.vollee.com/news/138_vollee_enables_25_more_handsets_for_second_life_mobile

quote 'Vollee's proprietary solution is the only technology currently available that can stream high-end PC titles to mobile, including popular massively multiplayer online role playing games. The company's VolleeX engine adapts applications for screen size and key layout, and then streams the original application to mobile devices. Vollee's interactive video streaming platform optimizes compression to minimize bandwidth requirements and also leverages the 3G mobile networks in such a way that gamers can easily and smoothly navigate virtual worlds. Vollee's technology is also extensible to fast paced, high quality video games previously impossible on mobile. '

So they can stream PC titles to mobile devices
 
Last edited:
dvdbunny said:
wow just look at what i found

http://innowave.blogspot.com/2008/08/liveplace-photo-realistic-virtual-world.html

Second life is already being streamed to 70 handsets, here is a quote 'Mobile phones and devices can already access virtual worlds such as Second Life on 3G networks. Vollee delivers Second Life to more than 70 handhelds by rendering it on the server side. Their Second Life iPhone client is in beta.'
Click to expand...

Not to crash your party but please give second life a try on your broadband and see how terrible it is.. do you own a 3G phone? I do. Browsing plain text sites is ok, sluggish with sites that are graphic intensive even when i have a 3.5G connection. Accessing youtube on my phone using EmTube works but you are left waiting around 25-60 seconds before the stream starts.

While the rendering is done server side on your sources I really cannot see this working, the amount of lag on a 3G device will be far higher than a broadband connection. Again, this idea is mental.
 
Last edited:
your response fails as not only are you a pre rv700 gpu that isnt ati's, your software/hardware isnt what is being used to GENERATE this level of detail.

Not only have they not stated what they are using, but they havent said how they are doing it - they are repeating themselves over and over again "this is a new method of designing games" they are speaking to actual games designers - this is not directed to the general public (not saying you are in no way related to 3d design - I dont know :p) but to say its not possible when they have already tested is unsubstantial. They have far more proof than words alone which is all the negative from this forum has said.

I keep seeing people saying "this is another second life" it has nothing to do with it. The videos submitted and topics discuessed are to developers, for developers on how the will do the complete process from creating, rigging, animating characters, landscapes, lighting and everything else. its not about updating your status, editing your likes and dislikes. get a grip. think of it as the new crygen engine or unreal engine but the whole lot in one new approach.

gone is the stupid balls (I always wondered why so few and so big - not needed)

gone is the keyframing and more importantly annoying task of nit picking rigging

they are talking about real time processing, but thats only PART of the whole picture. its just one benefit from this methodology.

Drunken master, your computer processing the game causes lag in itself - minute but it does add from the point the server sends the new commands for the pc to draw the new image to the pc actually drawing it. 10-15ms is fine, I get 50ms in wow and what do I care? I consider it a fast response time and secure especially when I compare it to client side hosting like on the halo series on xbox. THAT was bad ms.

This ms should now be less because not only are you replacing your PC (which could be good or bad - it is now redundant) from having to process the new image and sounds with a server super computer but your also batch recieving data which means less data is split up. Consider it like a buffering movie - at first you get a bit of lag so the movie can buffer but then it plays fine, now consider each new key pressed as a buffer, but of course the connection to the server is already established, the server is open and listening to your machine and of course 1 keypress is miniscule when it comes to data sending. and as their supercomputer is doing all of the processing - it should be done a lot quicker. Im just a bit gutted they didnt report the ms they was getting.

please bare in mind people, this process isnt for you to use, its for games designers, publishers etc. yes they will make liveplace out of it but they was reffering to that as an example of what it can do.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom