Fixtures - 30/31st August (Spoilers)

[BaZ87]

....

Your last 2 post have been pretty shocking tbh.

You're complaining about our system in the last 2 games and that Rafa refuses to change it but fail to recognise that vs Liege we played a 4-4-2 (on the whole) and today we played a 4-3-3 (on the whole) and in both games we made several changes throughout the games.

You then blame Torres' injury on the fact that he was up top on his own again forgetting that he played up top on his own regularly last year and didn't do too badly.

It seems as if you just like to moan.

Is that Gerrard and Torres out of the MU game then?

Benitez was confident that Gerrard will be back. No idea on Torres untill he has a scan.

 

[Tombstone]

In the group stages of the Champions League and second in the league despite playing poorly. We've really hit rock bottom

Its not just about the results, despite what some shareholders might tell you. Its also about performance, statistically we are in the group stages of the champions league and 2nd in the league. However, we have played like utter crap, and to be honest have been blatantly lucky to get to our current position. If we dont at least acknowledge that we've been playing poor and attempt to do something about it, we will just continue to play as we have been and at some stage that luck will run out.

I look at our champions league group, Marseille, Atletico Madrid and PSV, and I have to say that if we play against those 3 in the manner we have against Standard and Villa today..then we wont make it through.

We're 2nd in the league, but looking at the way we have been playing, can we really beat the top teams in the league if we dont address it? This isnt a time for sticking our heads in the sand and saying "its all alright, everything will be rosey" , its a time for introspective, analysis and improvement.

On paper we have a stronger team than our performances so far would suggest, yet something just isnt clicking and working out at the moment. We have to look at that and find out why and correct it

 

[Anders0n]

Still your best 2 players out of your biggest game of the season

We will still put in a below par performance and probably lose, regardless of whose playing.

 

[wassap]

Shocking setup today imo, why did he play Lucas and Kuyt where he did, just didnt work for us, if anything after Torres' injury, Kuyt and Keane should have played upfront, and Babel out wide.

Ngog was shocking, as was Alonso's passing AGAIN.Ngog is just Black Voronin minus the ponytail

Wtf have they been doing in pre-season, there just seems to be no cohesion, movement seems to be pee poor, and they just seem to meandering through games.Something isnt right at the club imo, and its transmitting through to the players.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Something isnt right at the club imo, and its transmitting through to the players.

I would've thought that's pretty obvious. Until the Americans go we won't have stability on or off the pitch.

 

[NokkonWud]

Liverpool match was funny. It's amazing that so many Liverpool fans are in support for a manager that is quite clearly tactically retarded.

The third game of Liverpools season where they haven't been the best team on the pitch.

I did however think Carragher and Mascherano were magnificent for them.

 

[BaZ87]

I would've thought that's pretty obvious. Until the Americans go we won't have stability on or off the pitch.

I'd be suprised if anything off the field really affects the players.

We're traditionally slow starters and we've had an incredibly disruptive pre-season with our Spanish players returning late for pre-season, Gerrard carrying an injury and missing a large part of pre-season and then losing 3 players to the Olympics.

As to today specifically; it seemed as if we set-up to play Villa on the break and it didn't pan out that way as Villa didn't attempt to take the game to us and instead just launched it forward to Carew. We tried to change it and bring Keane inside but going forward we've stilled not really clicked yet this season. There were some positives from today though; i thought we handled Villa really well in the air, which usually we struggle to do and i also thought Arbeloa done really well vs Young.

 

[NokkonWud]

In the group stages of the Champions League and second in the league despite playing poorly. We've really hit rock bottom

Hey, our season was over after a draw.

 

[BaZ87]

Liverpool match was funny. It's amazing that so many Liverpool fans are in support for a manager that is quite clearly tactically retarded.

The third game of Liverpools season where they haven't been the best team on the pitch.

I did however think Carragher and Mascherano were magnificent for them.

I know you're a Manc but to say that Boro or Liege played better than us is ridiculous. We didn't play well in either game but we still dominated every aspect of both of those games. Not sure you can say Villa played better than us today either, it was a nothing game. Nothing in it in the first half and we started the 2nd half the better but Villa finished it well.

Hey, our season was over after a draw.

Clearly the same for us going by your post and a few others

edit: Hopefully Torres will be ok for the Utd game. Rafa has said that he could be back between 7 and 10 days but we'll have to wait for the scan tomorrow to know for sure.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

I did however think Carragher and Mascherano were magnificent for them.

 

[BaZ87]

Rotty must have edited his post

 

[NokkonWud]

You're complaining about our system in the last 2 games and that Rafa refuses to change it but fail to recognise that vs Liege we played a 4-4-2 (on the whole) and today we played a 4-3-3 (on the whole) and in both games we made several changes throughout the games.

I understand where you are coming from as you could argue Man Utd play a 4-3-3 with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo, but what you played today was essentially a 4-5-1, there was absolutely no support from either wings as Benitez was clearly wary of Agbonlahor and Youngs pace as well as Shorey and Young/Reo-Coker bombing from the back.

A team that's had around £150m at a guess spent on them since Benitez took over and a team with the aspirations Liverpool have should not be settling for a draw, nor setting out a negative formation at a team like Aston Villa who whilst being one of the best of the rest are actually fodder for the top 4. They aren't that good and should not have caused a problem for Liverpool.

Today the system was the biggest flaw. Personally, I'd have had Kuyt up top as Benitez seemed to have told Dossena to start crossing at any opportunity, but none of your players bar Kuyt can compete aerially in any attacking move, and even then it's a task against Laursen and Davies, so again, bad tactics in playing one up top.

Against Villa it should have been two up top with Babel challenging then in the follow ups because bar Reo-Coker, who only came defensive once Young came off, Villa are a slow side at the back, certainly not a match for Babel, but instead he sat out the match.

Villa never looked like threatening, so for Benitez to sit there and watch his side grind out a draw is disgraceful. Something is not right at Liverpool and you've been very poor in all your games this season and ended up getting, for lack of a better word, lucky results. I've never been the biggest fan of Benitez, he strikes me as an arrogant, spiteful man and he isn't well liked by other managers, and you get the same impression through his formations and team selections.

 

[Anders0n]

Clearly the same for us going by your post and a few others

I'm not saying our seasons over, but we're never going to win the league with Benitez in charge.

Does anyone honestly think we're going to finish higher than 4th this season.

 

[NokkonWud]

I know, I'm shocked. But I'll always call it as I see it.
I also said he was excellent against us once too. .

 

[NokkonWud]

I know you're a Manc but to say that Boro or Liege played better than us is ridiculous. We didn't play well in either game but we still dominated every aspect of both of those games.

I didn't watch the Leige game, but Middlesbrough played by far and a way the better football that day.
And yes, Villa were better than you today. Get those bloody blinkers off Barry.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Does anyone honestly think we're going to finish higher than 4th this season.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm going to wait until we've got a full squad to pick from and a few more games under our belt before I judge how well we can do this season.

 

[Ripper]

I went round may mates to watch the Liverpool game (he's also a United fan), and we both just laughed at Benitez constantly. It's ridiculous how clueless he is.

Kuyt off for Aurelio!? What the hell is wrong with bringing Babel on? A point at Villa Park is not a good result. Why not bring Babel on for Torres and either stick him up top or tell Kuyt to push up and play Babel down the right. I just didn't understand what he was trying to achieve at all.

 

[BaZ87]

I understand where you are coming from as you could argue Man Utd play a 4-3-3 with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo, but what you played today was essentially a 4-5-1, there was absolutely no support from either wings as Benitez was clearly wary of Agbonlahor and Youngs pace as well as Shorey and Young/Reo-Coker bombing from the back.

You clearly don't understand where i was coming from

eggyoke was complaining that Rafa has been refusing to change the system and that's to blame. I was simply pointing out that he's completely wrong. We've mainly been playing a 4-4-2 before today and we then switched to a 4-3-3 today and we also changed that during the game.

As for you playing a 4-3-3 but us playing a 4-5-1. I disagree; Kuyt always has and will continue to track back but Keane certainly wasn't tracking back, possibly as there was no need as Villa played with Reo-Coker tucked in on their right. As i said earlier, it seemed as if the idea of the way we set-up was to try and hit Villa on the break.

A team that's had around £150m at a guess spent on them since Benitez took over and a team with the aspirations Liverpool have should not be settling for a draw, nor setting out a negative formation at a team like Aston Villa who whilst being one of the best of the rest are actually fodder for the top 4. They aren't that good and should not have caused a problem for Liverpool.

We didn't set out negatively nor did we play for a draw. Had Keane been played on the left to stop Villa then why didn't Aurelio play there? As above, we set out to play on the break but that didn't work out as our attacks broke down because of poor play and mainly down to Villa not attacking us.

Today the system was the biggest flaw. Personally, I'd have had Kuyt up top as Benitez seemed to have told Dossena to start crossing at any opportunity, but none of your players bar Kuyt can compete aerially in any attacking move, and even then it's a task against Laursen and Davies, so again, bad tactics in playing one up top.

I'd stick with Torres thanks

We could have brought on Babel when Torres went off though and moved either Kuyt or more likely Keane up front.

Against Villa it should have been two up top with Babel challenging then in the follow ups because bar Reo-Coker, who only came defensive once Young came off, Villa are a slow side at the back, certainly not a match for Babel, but instead he sat out the match.

I agree. The one change i'd have made from the start would have been Babel for either Lucas or Alonso and played Keane centrally.

Villa never looked like threatening, so for Benitez to sit there and watch his side grind out a draw is disgraceful. Something is not right at Liverpool and you've been very poor in all your games this season and ended up getting, for lack of a better word, lucky results. I've never been the biggest fan of Benitez, he strikes me as an arrogant, spiteful man and he isn't well liked by other managers, and you get the same impression through his formations and team selections.

Villa didn't threaten untill the very end of the game but like eggyoke, you're completely wrong to say he sat there and watched us grind out a draw. We made several changes throughout the game and tried different systems and players but we simply didn't play well enough.

As for being lucky, if anything we've been unlucky. Poor penalty decision given against us vs Liege (first leg), clear penalty turned down vs both Liege (2nd leg) and Sunderland and had possible penalties turned down today (Reo-Coker on Keane) and vs Boro (Huth saving Gerrard's shot).

As for the personal stuff about Benitez; im not sure why you think that and it strikes me as if it's just an anti Liverpool opinion.

 

[BaZ87]

I didn't watch the Leige game, but Middlesbrough played by far and a way the better football that day.
And yes, Villa were better than you today. Get those bloody blinkers off Barry.

Yea Boro were clearly the better side. They had around 35% possession, 8 attempts on goal compared to our 16 and a whole 3 corners compared to our 14. As i said we didn't play well by our standards but we were still easily the better side. Disagree about today, if anything we had more clearer chances to score but all in all there was nothing in it. You've even said yourself that Villa offered very little threat to our goal so on what way were they better (unless they defended better than us)?

 

[Loki]

I'm not saying our seasons over, but we're never going to win the league with Benitez in charge.

Does anyone honestly think we're going to finish higher than 4th this season.

I agree with Anders0n. This isn't about rivalry between Utd and Liverpool fans and it being a petty point scoring exercise. Or me as a United fan sticking the knife in after a poor performance. However there must come a day where Liverpool fans have got to say that the team isn't going forward under Benitez.

I sometimes think that Liverpool fans view Hicks & Gillett as the devil incarnate and because Rafa did some very clever PR last year before a Champions League game then he is the better of the two evils.

The problem with Benitez is that to pundits and fans alike his decisions just don't make any sense. Today being a prime example. Why not put Keane up top and say to him go on, give it a go. I still standby my comments of 18 months - two years ago that he is not buying the quality a club like Liverpool deserve. Bar the exception of Torres who had a magnificent first season, his signings have been nothing short of average and I include Keane in that. The excuse of no money can't be used this time as he has spent £19m on Keane.

He bought a player(in Keane) who looks to pick the ball up in the same positions as what Benayoun or Babel does on the left or what Kuyt does on the right. He can't really play as a second striker as Torres likes to pick the ball up from deep and take on a defender. So again at £19m you have to bring into question his accumen in the transfer market. Then he spends all summer hounding out a deal for Barry where you are already strong in that position. Regardless of who you sold that could have been the best part of £40m on two players that were either the wrong choice or were un-needed.