Undeniable proof UFO's are Real?

RDM said:
There is no compelling evidence, it seems that every time a photo or film is taken of a UFO the camera man forgets how to use his camera and we get grainy, blurred or otherwise unrecognisable images. Every time someone gets abducted it seems to be someone with serious issues prior to abduction.
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One reason for the lack of evidence could be the government/millitary/MiB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinxmEkcaS0&feature=related

In this interview with Travis Walton he says that his family were warned by a Nurse who had an elderly couple come into a hospital with a similar ufo experience and the next day when she came into work they had disapeared along with all there medical records and no one could remember seeing them.

Also an ex-CIA officer phoned Travis's family and gave them a similar warning to be very carfeful from the government/millitary/MiB.
 
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Everyone seems to base all their knowledge on our planet, our society, our laws, our science and our understanding.

This is so narrow minded.

How can anyone say life on a planet is just a freak. How ?? Says who. What evidence is thier to suggest its a freak based on our knowledge of a handful of planets compared to the millions out there.
 
magick said:
LOL. Does a beam from a lighthouse manifest itself as metalic triangle that's stationary fro 40 mins while being witnessed by lots of millitary personal then silently levitate up in the air and accelerate off at speeds breaking the laws of physics?
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so 70 ppl and not one of em had a camera?

But like i said it doesnt help when some of the witnesses tell blatantly different stories of what happened. (according to that wiki link anyway)
 
RDM said:
Going by the many shapes, colours, sizes of UFOs that visit the planet we seem to be on some sort of interglactic shipping route too.
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I've posted this over and over on these forums.
Up to 20 years ago aliens came in all shapes and sizes but now everybody sees Greys.
Perhaps in another 20 years people will eventually see the same craft which will make it more plausible instead of the 1000 different crafts we have now.
 
*Moangroan* said:
Everyone seems to base all their knowledge on our planet, our society, our laws, our science and our understanding.

This is so narrow minded.

How can anyone say life on a planet is just a freak. How ?? Says who. What evidence is thier to suggest its a freak based on our knowledge of a handful of planets compared to the millions out there.
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We know that complex life(*) is only possible here because of a number of unlikely events, some freakishly so. I'm surprised some theists with some knowledge of the subject haven't used that as support for their belief in a creator.

Off the top of my head:

Single star
Stable star
Massive enough to put out enough energy
Not massive enough to burn through its main cycle in less than the several billion years needed for complex life
Planet not too far away (too cold)
Planet not too close (too hot, too irradiated)
An atmosphere
An atmosphere that can regulate global temperature
An atmosphere that can burn up incoming rocks
Enough mavity to keep the atmosphere
A strong enough magnetic field (protects against some radiation from a star)
A very massive planet further out, to pull incoming rocks into it. The latest really big impact on Jupiter was only a few years ago and it created a string of impact marks, some as big as Earth. Now imagine that hitting Earth.
A strangely massive moon strangely nearby (it stabilises Earth's motion in orbit).


If complex life that involves water to any degree in any way, shape or form is anything other than very rare indeed, I'll consider that good evidence for either a creator or a seeder or an interstellar empire that collapsed, leaving colonists on this planet to slide back down to the stone age and then climb back up again, having forgotten the empire over the many generations.

* There are some extremely hardy bacteria that could survive in much more extreme and extremely varying conditions, such as Deinococcus radiodurans, also known as Conan the Bacterium.
 
magick said:
Travis Walton Event :-

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHN3TjwSjJk
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5T-R_ZqmxQ&feature=related
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I've had a look at these now, thanks. It still doesn't convince me either way but kudos to the actor playing Mr Walton for the slack jawed yokel impersonation.

*Moangroan* said:
Everyone seems to base all their knowledge on our planet, our society, our laws, our science and our understanding.

This is so narrow minded.

How can anyone say life on a planet is just a freak. How ?? Says who. What evidence is thier to suggest its a freak based on our knowledge of a handful of planets compared to the millions out there.
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To reiterate a point I've made before there is a difference between being open minded and accepting every random theory that floats into your conciousness. To reject something based on what you see as insufficient evidence isn't always narrow minded, it can be perfectly sensible to do so.

It's quite easy to say life on our planet is astronomically (pardon the pun) improbable, have you actually checked into the sequence of conditions and the fine balance that is required for life on this planet to exist? It is quite mind-boggling.

None of the above means that we are the only life in space or even in our galaxy but the chances of another planet such as Earth existing are extremely small so even if we allow that there is other life of some description out there we have no guarantee that it a) cares to come visit us or has the power to do so and b) that we'd recognise it even if it did.

//edit ah Angilion has outlined the conditions needed while I was posting.
 
dmpoole said:
I've posted this over and over on these forums.
Up to 20 years ago aliens came in all shapes and sizes but now everybody sees Greys.
Perhaps in another 20 years people will eventually see the same craft which will make it more plausible instead of the 1000 different crafts we have now.
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To me, that implies people conforming to a commonly agreed belief after a period in which there was no such belief.

It's like people in medieval times seeing religious visions - those visions would match what the people who saw them expected to see.

I do see another possibility - about 20 years ago, something happened that resulted in all people other than the "greys" stopping space travel. Maybe war, maybe a plague, maybe religion, whatever. The "greys" are still using the leftover ships from the other people.
 
Going off into the realms of extremely dissimilar life, not even water-based...

Let's make the wild assumption that there is, somewhere, some people whose physical form is made up of a cloud of gas. How would they get here? Why would they recognise us as life, or us them? What about if they are star-people, some form of energy-body in the outer edges of a star?

Talking of "how would they get here?", that's a valid question for any people. It isn't like sci-fi. Sci-fi just ignores the problems. I've only ever read one sci-fi series that even considers time dilation, for example, let alone other problems. Time dilation is a big one, though. Even if you have some interstellar Magic Gate, ships would need to travel within a system and that means either noticable time dilation or slow travel over long distances.
 
magick said:
One reason for the lack of evidence could be the government/millitary/MiB.
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Or, there could be no evidence.

magick said:
In this interview with Travis Walton he says that his family were warned by a Nurse who had an elderly couple come into a hospital with a similar ufo experience and the next day when she came into work they had disapeared along with all there medical records and no one could remember seeing them.

Also an ex-CIA officer phoned Travis's family and gave them a similar warning to be very carfeful from the government/millitary/MiB.
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Why is it that you think that the government, press, military and security services are continually lying to you but you believe every internet nutjob out there? Ever thought that just maybe, he may be making it all up? Why is he a reliable source?
 
Angilion said:
loads of good stuff
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You're also forgetting volcanoes to regulate the planet.
It would also need more meteors banging into it at exactly the right time to kickstart life.
Its also estimated that half of the water on this planet was bought here by comets etc.

That Earth is a fascinating documentary.
 
Surfer said:
so 70 ppl and not one of em had a camera?

But like i said it doesnt help when some of the witnesses tell blatantly different stories of what happened. (according to that wiki link anyway)
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How do you know there wasn't photographs? How do you know some soldiers aren't acting as stooges and deliberately spreading disinfo?
 
I'll reiterate:
If they wanted to stay hidden, there would be little or no evidence, not even indirectly.

If they didn't want to stay hidden, there would be ample evidence. Like an alien ship flying over a major city early in the afternoon, seen by many thousands of people and with clear video of it.

The only explanation I've read that (a) involves aliens and (b) is consistent with the evidence is the joke Douglas Adams put in Hitchikers - that all these sightings are adolescents, probably drunk, who think it's amusing to mess with the inhabitants of primitive societies.
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So why do we have crappy quality pictures/video of some things that could be anything and small number of people who say they've seen something they can't explain? Why not a ship hovering over a major city, tens of thousands of witnesses and clear video? Or nothing more than a few vague glimpses (human or machine) of nothing conclusive as the vastly superior technology shields the ship from detection?

Unless it really is adolescents messing with primitive societies for a laugh.
 
ok how exactly do the government, justify spending all the money they do on covering this up?

Presumably they get something from it?
 
Tefal said:
ok how exactly do the government, justify spending all the money they do on covering this up?

Presumably they get something from it?
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Travis Walton is asked the same question on that interview. He says it's to do with the power structures on this planet for whom oil is there lifeblood. UFO and there technology means no more oil and energy dependance which means they aren't in power anymore.
 
magick said:
Angilion, dmpoole, surefer how do you explain the travis walton story?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinxmEkcaS0&feature=related

Check the interview ^^
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I work at the NHS where we have patients that believe a lot of really crazy stuff that never happened.
Only today one of my students claimed that she saw a boys eye pop out onto his cheek and he popped it back in again and carried on as normal.
I told her that it was impossible for that to happen without losing your eyesight but she saw it with her own eyes.
Yeah OK.
 
Angilion said:
I'll reiterate:


So why do we have crappy quality pictures/video of some things that could be anything and small number of people who say they've seen something they can't explain? Why not a ship hovering over a major city, tens of thousands of witnesses and clear video? Or nothing more than a few vague glimpses (human or machine) of nothing conclusive as the vastly superior technology shields the ship from detection?

Unless it really is adolescents messing with primitive societies for a laugh.
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I think were at a point were ETs are gradualy revealing themselves to the public.
 
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