Thread Derailment - All 'Motors' contributors please read

[TW]Fox;12471799 said:
The ironic thing is that there are more posts by me discouraging people from buying a BMW than there is recommending them. I am convinced people like Third Opinion only post here for the drama, have you ever seen a non doom mongering or moaning post from him?
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Plenty of positive posts, except you only choose to read the dramatic ones because again you try to provoke an argument.

How many information posts have I posted on Alfas/Fiats pointing out the good and bad rather than just "they are rubbish".

What was the comment about my company Fiat Sedici "sounds like you bought a right piece of junk". Was that based on knowledge or just to provoke a reaction.

Please to play whiter than white, you are equally as bad as me for derailing threads just for the pure point of getting your oar in regardless to how you posts make the OP feel.
 
it's a nice idea.. but I think the fault lays partially with bmw / mondeo owners here.

every post that isn't about a beemer purchase goes down the road of, you could have got xyz bmw for that and that car is inferior in every way.. (there seems to be a hard core group of beemer owners here that are on a mission to convert the world to planet bmw lol)

i think 90% of my posts could be seen as 'trolling', but thats coz i don't post on forums to make friends with anyone, just to discuss stuff and glean info while on occasion helping others with things... and sometimes have a laugh by provoking response via emotion which can be a ton of fun. (though a legitimate way of posting as it's my views so no less worthy than any other poster)

on a personal note i don't like bmw's and see them as being solely bland rep mobile luxo barges solely for getting from a to b. others see them as the holy grail of motoring.. each to their own though, and I certainly don't hate anyone for owning xyz car, after all... it's just a tin box on wheels nothing more.
 
My problem isn't the discussion, it's the belittling of other members because they might've been able to get a (subjectively) better car for their money.

This is where the BMW/Mondeo problem comes from. As they are pretty good cars they often get recommended so it appears that whenever there's a "spec me a car" or an "I've just bought a (insert non BMW/Mondeo here)" thread the original poster is meant to feel stupid for buying second best.

I had the same thing with my Golf. I happened to buy it because I wanted it, it fulfilled all of my criteria. I'm perfectly aware that I could've got a Seat for less money but I didn't want one, I wanted a Golf because I prefer them, plain and simple. The slight saving of getting the Seat doesn't mean a thing to me.

My point is that not everyone wants the perceived "best" car for their money. To some, money and value isn't the most important thing (otherwise nobody would buy Alfas!)
 
eidolon said:
My problem isn't the discussion, it's the belittling of other members because they might've been able to get a (subjectively) better car for their money.

This is where the BMW/Mondeo problem comes from. As they are pretty good cars they often get recommended so it appears that whenever there's a "spec me a car" or an "I've just bought a (insert non BMW/Mondeo here)" thread the original poster is meant to feel stupid for buying second best.

I had the same thing with my Golf. I happened to buy it because I wanted it, it fulfilled all of my criteria. I'm perfectly aware that I could've got a Seat for less money but I didn't want one, I wanted a Golf because I prefer them, plain and simple. The slight saving of getting the Seat doesn't mean a thing to me.

My point is that not everyone wants the perceived "best" car for their money. To some, money and value isn't the most important thing (otherwise nobody would buy Alfas!)
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+1
 
eidolon said:
My problem isn't the discussion, it's the belittling of other members because they might've been able to get a (subjectively) better car for their money.

This is where the BMW/Mondeo problem comes from. As they are pretty good cars they often get recommended so it appears that whenever there's a "spec me a car" or an "I've just bought a (insert non BMW/Mondeo here)" thread the original poster is meant to feel stupid for buying second best.

I had the same thing with my Golf. I happened to buy it because I wanted it, it fulfilled all of my criteria. I'm perfectly aware that I could've got a Seat for less money but I didn't want one, I wanted a Golf because I prefer them, plain and simple. The slight saving of getting the Seat doesn't mean a thing to me.

My point is that not everyone wants the perceived "best" car for their money. To some, money and value isn't the most important thing (otherwise nobody would buy Alfas!)
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I agree. Belittling can be on the same level as personal attacks and will be treated accordingly. We don't want to come down too hard as there is a fine line between a bit of banter and outright bullying. We want the banter to stay as it makes this place.

In my experience, most banter can be taken as an insult, especially with some of our more 'sensitive' members. There will inevitably be disagreements on whether a comment was malicious or a bit of banter. We'll judge those as and when they appear.
 
I think it is fair to comment that perhaps you might have chosen a different car instead if you wanted the same type of vehicle. It is not fair to slate them, refuse to discuss with any sort of objectivity and derail the thread in to indirect abuse.

I remeber getting a load of grief about buying a Cat C Xantia HDI estate. Fair enough never going to be everyone's cup of tea but what was really telling was the fact that nobody could suggest anything better for my budget/requirements. Now I could have accepted comments such as "when looking for X car why did you not consider Z car instead" or do you really need a car with X feature when if you removed it from the criteria it would have opened up your budget to A,B and C car but all I got was a load of grief and then a couple of OMG you got all that for £900 comments. It doesn't really matter anyway because I didn't give a monkeys because I knew what I had bought was the car that I needed but it does foul up the spirit of the forums and I can see it upsetting some people.

The thread that really annoyed me tho was someone had posted up an MX5 register thread and people posted pictures of their fives etc and then a couple of ideots came in trolling on about BMW, Ford Mondeo and hairdressers....Honestly- no need. If someone had posted a 5 Series thread I might have looked in and commented at a particularly nice example. If there had been a Saxo thread I would have just stayed away because I would have nothing constructive or pleasant to post...... Why people feel the need to go on trolling missions left right and centre I don't know. What I do know is it is ruining the forum because debate is turned into petty squabbles or just utter rubbish.
 
While we're at it, can we please stop people quoting posts and just adding the word 'this'. It's highly irritating and just a new way of writing 'Quoted for truth' that was so highly frowned upon.

Cheers :)
 
Most public web forums by their very nature attract all sorts of individuals and also attract their little cliques. OCUK Motors is no different and I think you will struggle to change this unless you take a dictatorial approach, which defeats the object of a public debate forum somewhat. Most people who contribute to this forum have at sometime jumped on a bandwagon of some sort, so no one is immune from criticism and again like most forums people tend to be set in their ways and often ‘know best’ when in fact they just have a different opinion. The biggest mistake people make and what they seem to forget when cars are concerned, even more so with people who believe themselves to be petrol heads, is a car purchase is often a decision of heart over mind and therefore trying to break it down into easily defined parameters, though perhaps logical, is not normally the way a car nut buys a car. BMW’s and Mondeos are good cars in the main, though like all cars they are far from perfect and therefore trying to suggest or infer that they are the only choice is childish.

I think you will struggle to stop such comments being made and will have to simply moderate more heavily when they do. Cars cannot always be broken down into logical choices when factors such as image, style, stigma and kit are less or more important than economical logic to some people and this is why a BMW or Mondeo is not always the right answer for everyone. Those who pass comment either supporting or dismissing those cars should consider this I suggest...
 
Scuzi said:
I agree. Belittling can be on the same level as personal attacks and will be treated accordingly. We don't want to come down too hard as there is a fine line between a bit of banter and outright bullying. We want the banter to stay as it makes this place.

In my experience, most banter can be taken as an insult, especially with some of our more 'sensitive' members. There will inevitably be disagreements on whether a comment was malicious or a bit of banter. We'll judge those as and when they appear.
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imo if anyone is honestly 'bullied' in a virtual online world then they need to get out in the fresh air abit more ;), and maybe having their pretend world brought into check abit is a good thing for them as a person. (even if that were seen as bullying)

sometimes, people need to wake up and actually think about what is important in life, a bunch of text on a interweb forum is not one of those

all this talk of 'nip in the bud' and 'we'll judge' does sound a little power hungry tbh, you can moderate a forum without sounding like a powermonger. (ie - have a quiet word with people you deem to be trouble makers, huh maybe me lol). In reality a forum moderator has no more 'power' than my gran, in fact... she has more constructive things to do with her life like knitting :D

take what I write above with a pinch of salt and a laugh ,not a dig, just remember... it's just a forum about cars that is all :)


ps: I have admined / owned a very large net forum with a large user base (before I sold it) and never once felt the need to use terms like 'nip in the bud' to it's members, it's a little belittling tbh. :(
 
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Flukester said:
it's a nice idea.. but I think the fault lays partially with bmw / mondeo owners here.

every post that isn't about a beemer purchase goes down the road of, you could have got xyz bmw for that and that car is inferior in every way.. (there seems to be a hard core group of beemer owners here that are on a mission to convert the world to planet bmw lol)
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But this is the thing - there is no doubt there is a large number of people who think this is the case. This is why they make snide remarks whenever possible. But look around the forum - how often is it truely the case? Very rarely, actually.

Most threads progress along very nicely until somebody who happens to own a BMW, perhaps they've got one in their sig, or whatever, makes a comment without even mentioning their car. Boom - the vultures are all over the thread with the snide 'well if it isnt a BMW its crap :rolleyes:' junk and the thread descends into anarchy.

Although it happens from time to time, very rarely is a thread about buying a Fiesta dragged off topic by people trying to convince others they need a BMW instead.

Interestingly, though, I cannot remember a recent BMW thread which wasn't hijacked by the anti BMW crew. Ironic really.
 
mattpc said:
The thread that really annoyed me tho was someone had posted up an MX5 register thread and people posted pictures of their fives etc and then a couple of ideots came in trolling on about BMW, Ford Mondeo and hairdressers....Honestly- no need. If someone had posted a 5 Series thread I might have looked in and commented at a particularly nice example.
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Somebody did post a 5 Series thread once. It was absolutely trashed by about post 20.

I never bother to recommend people a 5 Series unless it's bloody obvious, ie the thread is called 'Spec me an executive saloon'. It isn't worth the hassle. I genuinelly have posted in more threads discouraging BMW ownership than I have encouraging it in recent years.
 
Flukester said:
ps: I have admined / owned a very large net forum with a large user base (before I sold it) and never once felt the need to use terms like 'nip in the bud' to it's members, it's a little belittling tbh. :(
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Care to explain that further? Why would it be belittling unless you belonged to the pool of idiots who are negatively affecting the quality of the Motors forum? It is this group who the comments are aimed at, not the entire member base.

I do my best to be fair and often have a word with members if they overstep the line rather than just suspending them, in fact I can't even recall the last time I suspended someone. However, as I'm sure you know from having moderated a large online forum, there are a certain group of special people out there, probably kids, who haven't got the IQ to comprehend what you tell them and only seem to understand punitive measures.

Sometimes you have to be harsh to keep order. Harsh but fair.

Or would you rather we sat back and did nothing?
 
[TW]Fox;12460478 said:
That would presumably be somebodies opinion, whereas wrecking a thread about Seat Leons with garbage about how apparently if it isnt a Ford its crap rather isn't.
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No, it would be someone having a dig, for having a dig's worth. It's an insult. If they don't like it, by all means let them comment that they don't like it. But don't take the **** whilst doing it, it's just unpleasant and will do nothing but provoke an argument or insults. "I don't think that's any good" vs "When will you pick up and spend your next giro on more stick on tat?"
 
Scuzi said:
Care to explain that further? Why would it be belittling unless you belonged to the pool of idiots who are negatively affecting the quality of the Motors forum? It is this group who the comments are aimed at, not the entire member base.

I do my best to be fair and often have a word with members if they overstep the line rather than just suspending them, in fact I can't even recall the last time I suspended someone. However, as I'm sure you know from having moderated a large online forum, there are a certain group of special people out there, probably kids, who haven't got the IQ to comprehend what you tell them and only seem to understand punitive measures.

Sometimes you have to be harsh to keep order. Harsh but fair.

Or would you rather we sat back and did nothing?
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Fair comments and in retrospect it's right to keep the place friendly via public announcement... i do know it's a tough job and understand how it's hard to keep everyone happy (including halfwits such as meself lol)

Anyway, while i'm here I'm looking for a mid sized saloon, nice build quality, relaxing drive, not a rip off pile'o'junk like most motors, any ideas ? ;);)
 
[TW]Fox;12474942 said:
But this is the thing - there is no doubt there is a large number of people who think this is the case. This is why they make snide remarks whenever possible. But look around the forum - how often is it truely the case? Very rarely, actually.

Most threads progress along very nicely until somebody who happens to own a BMW, perhaps they've got one in their sig, or whatever, makes a comment without even mentioning their car. Boom - the vultures are all over the thread with the snide 'well if it isnt a BMW its crap :rolleyes:' junk and the thread descends into anarchy.

Although it happens from time to time, very rarely is a thread about buying a Fiesta dragged off topic by people trying to convince others they need a BMW instead.

Interestingly, though, I cannot remember a recent BMW thread which wasn't hijacked by the anti BMW crew. Ironic really.
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Heh, I guess thats true as well.. the anti beemer brigade are as passionate about their hate of all things bmw as the owners are passionate about their love of the brand..

Thing is with cars, it's the 2nd largest purchase anyone makes in their life, and with so much choice it's no wonder everyone gets attached to their motor and hates anyone telling them they've made the wrong choice.

I guess if someone said 'yeah flukester your bike, pile of junk you should have got this or that' i would shrug it off but at same time bite back with why I have it / chose it maybe arguing it's merits... but I guess thats half the fun of forums, a little debate gets the old grey matter working :)
 
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