How did BT get so bad?

Scottland · 30 Sep 2008 at 19:48

sr4470 said:
Thats well and good, but he's already paid BT the installation cost, and if it has a physical fault (which is what it sounds like) only BT can fix it.

I was referring to:

sr4470 said:
I know, but if other companies don't serve that area, he doesn't really have much choice.

But yeah BT Retail will have to report it to Openreach who will fix it

Indy500 · 30 Sep 2008 at 19:51

Scottland said:
I was referring to:

But yeah BT Retail will have to report it to Openreach who will fix it

Personally, I would keep the line rental with BT but get a call plan from someone else using a free access number. Moneysavingexpert has a few companies listed with reasonable rates..

Redrum · 30 Sep 2008 at 19:52

Scottland said:
but it'll still run through the same copper network, and be at the same exchange

And crucially it will still be installed by BT engineers. Under normal circumstances, they don't care if the installation they do actually works most of the time, or indeed if they even turn up, but when they are doing the work for a rival company, they care even less. BT won't let anyone else into the exchanges, even though with LLU companies can have their own equipment in there.

Scottland · 30 Sep 2008 at 19:56

sr4470 said:
Personally, I would keep the line rental with BT but get a call plan from someone else using a free access number. Moneysavingexpert has a few companies listed with reasonable rates..

So would I if I needed cheaper calls or a call package etc.

Redrum said:
And crucially it will still be installed by BT engineers. Under normal circumstances, they don't care if the installation they do actually works most of the time, or indeed if they even turn up, but when they are doing the work for a rival company, they care even less. BT won't let anyone else into the exchanges, even though with LLU companies can have their own equipment in there.

Anywhere LLU is present there is a co-mingling area which 3rd party engineers are allowed access to, this is normally done with a co-op of a BT/Openreach Frames engineer.
They just don't get access to the MDF, HDF and TAM, which is owned by BT/Openreach.

BigglesPiP · 30 Sep 2008 at 19:58

sr4470 said:
Personally, I would keep the line rental with BT but get a call plan from someone else using a free access number. Moneysavingexpert has a few companies listed with reasonable rates..

Why? I almost never use the phone, and they gave me free evening and weekend calls with the line rental.

Scottland · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:01

BigglesPiP said:
Why? I almost never use the phone, and they gave me free evening and weekend calls with the line rental.

If you wanted an anytime or international calling package, it's normally cheaper to use a carrier pre select provider. But for casual use it's not really worth it.

Redrum · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:07

Scottland said:
They just don't get access to the MDF, HDF and TAM, which is owned by BT/Openreach.

I presume one of those acronyms is the bit where the lines actually come in and you have to patch into, which would effectively mean BT need to do part of the work, and they have exclusive access to a bit where if they want to break an llu line (for fun or to use the copper for something else) they can and only they can fix it?

That at least seemed to be the case when I worked for a company that did llu phone lines, but that was about 3 years ago so things might have changed since then.

Indy500 · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:09

BigglesPiP said:
Why? I almost never use the phone, and they gave me free evening and weekend calls with the line rental.

I tend to use a landline for most, if not all, calls - including during the day and to mobiles.

BigglesPiP · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:14

sr4470 said:
I tend to use a landline for most, if not all, calls - including during the day and to mobiles.

Well I'm never here in the day, I'm on the right path.

Indy500 · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:17

BigglesPiP said:
Well I'm never here in the day, I'm on the right path.

Believe it or not, most people I need to call only stick around during standard office hours, so I have to make the call during the day...

What are you implying exactly? Its a crime to ever be in during the day?

Scottland · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:19

Redrum said:
I presume one of those acronyms is the bit where the lines actually come in and you have to patch into, which would effectively mean BT need to do part of the work, and they have exclusive access to a bit where if they want to break an llu line (for fun or to use the copper for something else) they can and only they can fix it?

That at least seemed to be the case when I worked for a company that did llu phone lines, but that was about 3 years ago so things might have changed since then.

I'm sure any issues like that aren't confined to LLU though

Senture · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:24

sr4470 said:
Better than VM on a bad day I've seen pings of up to 5000ms. (5 seconds)

This man speaks the truth.

Code:

Tracing route to ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.60.60]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  192.168.4.1
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *     3783 ms     *     brnt-t3core-1b-ge-018-0.network.virginmedia.net
[195.182.179.53]
  5     *     3784 ms  3402 ms  bre-bb-b-as1-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.
174.249]
  6  3532 ms  3690 ms     *     telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
185.74]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 18     *        *     3778 ms  mike-2.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.60.60]

Trace complete.

Typical evening for me.

BigglesPiP · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:26

sr4470 said:
Believe it or not, most people I need to call only stick around during standard office hours, so I have to make the call during the day...

What are you implying exactly? Its a crime to ever be in during the day?

This thread is about how bad BT is/what I should be doing about it.

I assumed you were implying that everyone makes the same kind of calls as you, and so I'm with the wrong provider.

Indy500 · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:27

BigglesPiP said:
This thread is about how bad BT is/what I should be doing about it.

I assumed you were implying that everyone makes the same kind of calls as you, and so I'm with the wrong provider.

Not at all, I just thought I'd offer my opinion. If you don't make daytime calls then stick with BT's tariffs, by all means.

You do need to receive calls on it though don't you?

Whappers · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:30

cheets64 said:
Nearly every company is like that, Virgin media where superb when it was Telewest.

+1

BigglesPiP · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:31

sr4470 said:
You do need to receive calls on it though don't you?

Just being able to use it at all would be good at the moment.

Scottland · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:34

BigglesPiP said:
Just being able to use it at all would be good at the moment.

Have they given you any indication on what the problem is or when an engineer is due?
Don't forget you can claim back downtime, it's about 50p a day

Indy500 · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:35

BigglesPiP said:
Just being able to use it at all would be good at the moment.

Well, I hope they put you through to someone who speaks English on the next call.

Could be worse, in fact I'm not allowed (by the property owner) to install a BT line here.

CMOS · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:35

Ha! If you are a previous BT customer and they try and pull that move on you the £125 charge, Start getting the loyalty book out on them, They will eventually give in. It's utter trash, I switched to Sky Talk afterwards, Just getting to a BT customer advisor is a miracle.

Redrum · 30 Sep 2008 at 20:35

Senture said:
This man speaks the truth.

Maybe you should speak to their tech support because this is what I just got at pretty much peak time:

Code:

tracert ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk

Tracing route to ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.60.60]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     7 ms    10 ms     8 ms  10.3.116.1
  3     9 ms    41 ms     9 ms  wapk-t2cam1-b-v113.network.virginmedia.net [80.1
.170.189]
  4    21 ms    19 ms     9 ms  popl-t3core-1b-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [19
5.182.175.233]
  5    11 ms    12 ms    19 ms  pop-bb-b-as2-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.
174.238]
  6    10 ms    26 ms    13 ms  win-bb-a-so-210-0.network.virginmedia.net [212.4
3.162.193]
  7    10 ms     9 ms    11 ms  bre-bb-b-so-100-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.1
05.172.234]
  8    15 ms    31 ms    12 ms  telc-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
185.74]
  9    12 ms    11 ms    12 ms  te1-3.ccr01.lon04.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.15
.69]
 10    16 ms    14 ms    12 ms  te4-3.mpd01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.3.
189]
 11    11 ms    12 ms    14 ms  149.6.2.130
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13    18 ms    16 ms    36 ms  gy-7-switch.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.47.71]
 14    14 ms    16 ms    16 ms  mike-2.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.60.60]

Trace complete.


ping ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk

Pinging ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk [85.232.60.60] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 85.232.60.60: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=53
Reply from 85.232.60.60: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=53
Reply from 85.232.60.60: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=53
Reply from 85.232.60.60: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 85.232.60.60:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 43ms, Average = 24ms

I'd like to see someone using BT or any other ADSL ISP for that matter getting a 24ms ping.