Poll: McCain Vs Obama - Forum Vote

Who would you vote for?

  • Obama

    Votes: 1,045 90.2%
  • McCain

    Votes: 113 9.8%

  • Total voters
    1,158
So would you agree that the harder you work, the more you earn, the MORE taxes you pay?

You think that is how it should work ?

You think the People who work hard deserve to be punished for doing so?

Don't make that mistake, hard work and high earnings are not always inextricably linked. Yes a lot of the highest earners have worked hard (at least at some point) to get their income but a lot of people who do no more than get by on the earnings front work equally as hard if such a thing can be quantified.

Do you think money always has equal worth? Or if that question is slightly oblique - do you think an extra $10 would affect your life as much as it would do for someone who was homeless?
 
I know, i just want him to say it. If he believes so strongly in it, say it.
Well, there was a not-so-subtle hint. You might not get better.

I don't know how people can have so narrow views, do they not do math at school?
Like I said, they do the American Dream. For some, that overrides all else, including common sense.

Also, why are some Americans so afraid of the word Socialism?
See above, and yes, Communism too.

(contains swearing in parts)
I haven't watched it, but perhaps you'd like to remind yourself of the forum rules re: swearing.
 
Not enough Americans see this (blatantly obvious Killa_Ken hasn't). What a pity, but never mind, Obama will win anyway, at long last restoring pride, dignity and respect to the United States of America. Long overdue.

obamamccaintaxplansof9.jpg

lol, this is exactly why Obama shouldn't be in charge, he's a idiot, the people who earn more than $700k a year work in congress, or own someone who is in congress, you won't pass tax raises on the rich and cuts on the poorest, especially while Obama is running around telling everyone he's going to shake up the house and congress(without saying how) and basically tells big business he refuses to work with them.

Everyone of his plans needs more money, he said 2 years ago he wanted to pull out of Iraq by March 2008(seemingly unaware of when he might even be able to become president), he's in the course of time changed his mind to pull out hopefully by 2011, much the same plan as McCain, except McCain hasn't changed his mind 18 times, he knew what was needed, his advisors knew what was needed and he didn't lie to the public to get votes. Obama strenously opposed the surge of troops into Iraq in previous months to help seal security and stop the attacks and amount of lives lost, almost everyone else is in favour. Obama now admits he was WRONG, but still says he was right to oppose it, if you can explain the logic of that to me good on you, he seemingly can't and neither can anyone else.

The fact that all his plans and idea's have changed means a few things, he has no idea how anything works, he changes his mind daily based on who he's speaking infront of, he tells the world what they want to hear, and hope will work but realistically has no chance of ever happening. Like his plan to replace oil as main fuel source by 2032 or something, clearly a big and major plan to go on during his 4 years in charge. WOO.

He constantly brings up how the other side will bring his race into the campaign as a negative thing and how he will never use his race to win votes. However McCain doesn't talk about him being black, at all, they haven't used that ever, while Obama constantly talks about being black. He made a HUGE deal about not spending big money on ad campaigns and "buying an election" because the republicans are seen as having money while he, a fringe minority isn't. However his group has gotten more money than any presidential campaign ever, far more than McCain and he's yet again gone back on his word and spent MASSIVELY on his campaign and massively on ad's when he promised he wouldn't as it just corrupts the whole process.


Internal american politicals are only partially about the party, not everything is black and white in terms of left/right wing, and almost exclusively foreign policy is not going to be effected by left or right wing-edness. The things that will effect you and me over here are having a strong leader the world doesn't see as a massive pushover, gunshy and doesn't know what he's doing. In terms of foreign policy China, Russia and Korea will be FAR more concerned and far less likely to do anything antagonistic with McCain in charge than Obama. THat means, the likelyhood of say Russia invading Georgia is lower with McCain in charge than with Obama.


He also goes on and on about being non partisan, despite the fact that he has the most ultra left wing voting history of any current person involved in US politics. Repbulicans have some ultra right wing crap stuff going on, Democrats have some ridiculous ultra left wing policies, McCain isn't an ultra right winger, but Obama is ultra, ultra left wing.


To be perfectly honest, I don't give a hoot about their personal politics, I don't care if internal american politics are left, right, middle or up their own backsides, foreign policy will be better served by McCain, easily, without question. That means McCain is better for us, and everyone else.
 
Don't make that mistake, hard work and high earnings are not always inextricably linked. Yes a lot of the highest earners have worked hard (at least at some point) to get their income but a lot of people who do no more than get by on the earnings front work equally as hard if such a thing can be quantified.

Do you think money always has equal worth? Or if that question is slightly oblique - do you think an extra $10 would affect your life as much as it would do for someone who was homeless?

YOu sould realise that the taxation of the higher income also effects business's. Lots of small business run on tiny margins but a small business with 5 employee's can have a turnover of $700k in a year, that doesn't mean profits, that means small business's are slipping into the ultra taxed region and considering the success rate of small business's already, and the incoming recession this is going to massively hurt small business there.

Really the last damn thing either side wants is tax cuts, have you seen the ridiculous debt they are in, reduced spending will be massively welcome but tax cuts won't at all, neither are likely to bring real tax cuts, like all governments it will be a tax cut here in public massively but 12 hidden taxes increased to compensate. Tax cuts are an illusion, but those that promise to hurt the rich and help the poor are just flat out lying and buying votes.
 
A lot less radical extremists, thats where!

Just because theres a new president, doesnt mean the koran will change and say non-muslims are OK.

I typed a long reply then i realise that there is no point debating with someone with no intention of listening.
 
lol, this is exactly why Obama shouldn't be in charge, he's a idiot, the people who earn more than $700k a year work in congress, or own someone who is in congress
That might have been true two months ago. If he acts quickly he might be able to shame Congress into getting it through thanks to Main Street's current distaste for 'fat cats' (even though that does go against the American Dream).

he said 2 years ago he wanted to pull out of Iraq by March 2008(seemingly unaware of when he might even be able to become president), he's in the course of time changed his mind to pull out hopefully by 2011, much the same plan as McCain, except McCain hasn't changed his mind 18 times,
18 times? Where did that come from? I'll grant you he has changed his mind more than once. Mind you, I'm sure it won't take long to find another policy McCain has changed his mind on, so that's something of a red herring.
 
Er.......I heard this 4 years ago (replace McCain with Bush), and people hate him now !

you heard that bush would be better than, bush 4 years ago when Bush was running for re-election?

As for Bush, he can't speak in public, he sounds like a complete and utter moron, I don't personally think he was a great president, but the War on IRaq isn't terrible, their public reasons were, but getting rid of Saddam, and much more importantly having a military pressence disuading the ridiculously large army neighbouring it that is constantly building, amassing weapons and dodgeing nuclear arms inspectors while threatening to wipe Isreal from the face of the planet was incredibly badly needed if you realise it or not.

Obama classes the huge army growing every day in Iran as a terrorist Army, he, and everyone else think that pulling out of Iraq will leave it ripe for terrorist activities and Iran would be involved with them, he's massively, I mean insanely massively behind Israel and protecting them but somehow thinks, or at least thought pulling out of Iraq was the best way forward so he could talk with the guy in Iran threatening to wipe out Israel. He's since change his mind on exactly what he can do just talking to this guy, and how also doesn't think pulling out of Iraq is safe. Every plan/idea he's had for the region has changed and he now seems to think the surge worked and pulling out is bad.... he still somehow thinks he was right to oppose both plans, despite now saying they were the correct course of action. He has no idea how to deal with the situation and will, if placed in charge have the same people advising him that Bush, and McCain will have, he will take the same course of action as Bush or McCain, he might just hessitate at the wrong time though and his appearance of being weak to the rest of the world WILL affect how the rest of the world acts, thats the problem.

The fact is everyone worldwide somehow thinks McCain is a warmonger and Obama is the symbol of peace, that simply will effect what the rest of the world does. Except all Obama's "peace" plans from 2 years ago have completely changed, he seems to now want to do exactly what McCain wants to do, but people ignore that and just talk about his plan from a year ago, not his plan now. He will do exactly the same as McCain but is seen as weak and seen to change his mind frequently, these are just simply not things you want Russia, Korea or China to be thinking about the American president.
 
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you heard that bush would be better than, bush 4 years ago when Bush was running for re-election?

As for Bush, he can't speak in public, he sounds like a complete and utter moron, I don't personally think he was a great president, but the War on IRaq isn't terrible, their public reasons were, but getting rid of Saddam, and much more importantly having a military pressence disuading the ridiculously large army neighbouring it that is constantly building, amassing weapons and dodgeing nuclear arms inspectors while threatening to wipe Isreal from the face of the planet was incredibly badly needed if you realise it or not.

Obama classes the huge army growing every day in Iran as a terrorist Army, he, and everyone else think that pulling out of Iraq will leave it ripe for terrorist activities and Iran would be involved with them, he's massively, I mean insanely massively behind Israel and protecting them but somehow thinks, or at least thought pulling out of Iraq was the best way forward so he could talk with the guy in Iran threatening to wipe out Israel. He's since change his mind on exactly what he can do just talking to this guy, and how also doesn't think pulling out of Iraq is safe. Every plan/idea he's had for the region has changed and he now seems to think the surge worked and pulling out is bad.... he still somehow thinks he was right to oppose both plans, despite now saying they were the correct course of action. He has no idea how to deal with the situation and will, if placed in charge have the same people advising him that Bush, and McCain will have, he will take the same course of action as Bush or McCain, he might just hessitate at the wrong time though and his appearance of being weak to the rest of the world WILL affect how the rest of the world acts, thats the problem.

Clinton had 8 years in office and he never invaded Iraq yet Isreal is still here...your argument that you need McCain to be in office because he is better at foreign policy doesn't hold water.
 
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Tax cuts and spending was handle well by Clinton,



Just look at the spending of tax money vs revenue, fact is Bush has 8 years in charge and his control of the economy and banks have ruined the worlds economy and people want to put McCain in charge a 70 odd year old bum chum of Bush. History does not lie and neither will Obama

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/Revenue_v_Spending.png

The graph above in Figure 3 illustrates the myth that you can cut taxes and increase spending and expect to get increased government revenue. Interestingly, since Johnson, every Democrat has increased revenue more than spending. However in the opposite case, under all five Republican Presidents, since Nixon, government revenue has decreased and spending has increased. This is positive, unambiguous proof that cutting taxes does not increase revenue. Yet John McCain is still trying to sell that old canard.



The contrast between Clinton’s tax policies and the second Bush’s are dramatically evident from this data. By setting up taxes to help the middle class and small business Clinton stimulated economy so much that we saw the largest increase in government revenue in history. The Neo-Con “trickle down” policy clearly does not work. You cut taxes and you reduce government revenue, period. That is the real truth, no matter how many times we are told you must make the wealthy just a little richer to improve the economy. That does not work and the numbers above prove it.
 
YOu sould realise that the taxation of the higher income also effects business's. Lots of small business run on tiny margins but a small business with 5 employee's can have a turnover of $700k in a year, that doesn't mean profits, that means small business's are slipping into the ultra taxed region and considering the success rate of small business's already, and the incoming recession this is going to massively hurt small business there.

While I do appreciate a lesson on basic economics, it was neither my point or my intention to get into exactly where a cut off level should exist. The idea was simply to gauge whether Killa_ken thought that money means the same to everyone or if there are levels of value that are more approximate than absolute.

Really the last damn thing either side wants is tax cuts, have you seen the ridiculous debt they are in, reduced spending will be massively welcome but tax cuts won't at all, neither are likely to bring real tax cuts, like all governments it will be a tax cut here in public massively but 12 hidden taxes increased to compensate. Tax cuts are an illusion, but those that promise to hurt the rich and help the poor are just flat out lying and buying votes.

When you're somewhere south of $10 trillion in debt it all becomes rather academic what you do or don't do in regard of tax cuts at the level of the 'ordinary joe' or Pete the Plumber.
 
Oh dear. I knew Obama would own when it came to BRITISH INTERNET users. Im not saying its a bad decision but both candidates are pretty damn naff...can we add an option ' i wouldnt vote' i can't understand people who don't vote but in this case i'd hate to think i gave one of them a chance to rule the world.

where is the neither button?
exacts
 
Oh dear. I knew Obama would own when it came to BRITISH INTERNET users. Im not saying its a bad decision but both candidates are pretty damn naff...can we add an option ' i wouldnt vote' i can't understand people who don't vote but in this case i'd hate to think i gave one of them a chance to rule the world.


exacts

I just wish drunkenmaster would run for president or at least Clark Howard.
 
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