Subaru set to pull out of WRC!
- Thread starter Dangerous
- Start date
Next year is going to be tough year, now is a great time to be a student I promise you. It's going to get uglier before it gets pretty again. Motorsport has always been expensive but in the last few years to a idiotic extent. As far as the 'sport' is concerned this needs to happen and it's why a sport built around quoted companies is bad news! When it gets tough they go and if you're not careful they take your sport with them!
[TW]Fox;13097122 said:Wow, those S2000 Rally Cars look like junk - Corsa, Fiesta, etc etc? Ok these cars have a place in Rally but not at the top flight where it should be about turbo nutter Impreza's etc
The S2000 cars are so far built by the privateers rather than the manufacturer teams I believe. They tend to choose what they think will be the best and cheapest to run rather than for marketing reasons. As you say at the moment in 2008 they are 2nd/3rd teir cars but getting better, in 2010 we do not know what models they will be based on.
I am convinced that the S2000 format will open things up for more teams and different cars to compete because of the cost reductions. The MG I saw at the Bulldog rally sounded great although seemed to drive like the group N cars which always look a bit dull. The WRC cars in the rally and the old Escorts were the most spectacular.
As for the S2000 with the WRC kit (Wing and Turbo) I do not know what this will be like. More power is good but without all the electronic controls/differentials/anti lag it will not be as fast. It should be interesting to see if they behave sensibly like a group N or possibly get spectacular more like group B. Does this excite manufacturers by showing off their technical excellence, and allowing to pay for the car to get to the top for the marketing value - sadly not
I am also sure the WRC is still to long and expensive for most privateers to consider doing a full season to make up the numbers.It is a big shame for Subaru to go but they are in the same boat as Suzuki with a new car requiring development. Are you going to pay loads to improve it probably during next year only to retire it when at the end of the year. Is the financial crisis making it easier to pull out? Of course, a great excuse but hopefully none of these companies are in dire straights financially. Are there any Japanese manufacturers left in a car based international motorsport apart from Toyota in F1?
one of the big problems with WRC is the extreme difficulty in controlling spectators. Were never going to see faster more agile cars like the group b days again because health and safety got a hold of the FIA and strangled the life out of the sport. WRC imo has been on a downward spiral ever since those days.
Stages getting shorter, single make tyres, fewer stages, more limits on the company to do what it wants on the car etc.
RIP Group B, RIP Colin Mcrae and Richard Burns and now RIP WRC
Stages getting shorter, single make tyres, fewer stages, more limits on the company to do what it wants on the car etc.
RIP Group B, RIP Colin Mcrae and Richard Burns and now RIP WRC
I don't think the spectators make that many odds. The roads and forests are not designed with people watching in mind, you have to go and be sensible in where you watch from. You will get busy areas and the people being silly and I believe that this is when the accidents happen. Obviously the shorter stages makes for more spectators per square inch but it is better for TV apparently.
Rallying is a different sport from the group B days. Drivers now have a tour around on the roads and then short sprints of stages that are very over competitive. They are battling for every tenth of a second everywhere and learning the whole course to get better. It is not an endurance where you relied more on the notes and had bigger gaps.
The companies spoil it a bit. Pirelli as the single tyre maker and supplying a single tyre caused chaos at the Wales Rally GB. Citroen, Ford, Subaru pushed the price and complexity of cars up so new manufacturers struggle a lot to get competitive. Privateers have no chance and they leave, then the manufacturers run out of money or are not competitive and pack up and leave as well.
Rallying is a different sport from the group B days. Drivers now have a tour around on the roads and then short sprints of stages that are very over competitive. They are battling for every tenth of a second everywhere and learning the whole course to get better. It is not an endurance where you relied more on the notes and had bigger gaps.
The companies spoil it a bit. Pirelli as the single tyre maker and supplying a single tyre caused chaos at the Wales Rally GB. Citroen, Ford, Subaru pushed the price and complexity of cars up so new manufacturers struggle a lot to get competitive. Privateers have no chance and they leave, then the manufacturers run out of money or are not competitive and pack up and leave as well.
Are they quicker than a modern group B equivilent would be on the same stages? Remember group B development essentially stopped over 20 years ago...
Group B with modern tech would obliterate current WRC cars.
Another one bites the dust
So we have out so far:
Honda - F1
Seat - BTCC
Suzuki - WRC
Subaru - WRC
Audi - ALMS / LMS
Who next? My money is on Toyota for F1 and quite a few independants in the LMS (Martin Short's Rollcentre Racing)
So we have out so far:
Honda - F1
Seat - BTCC
Suzuki - WRC
Subaru - WRC
Audi - ALMS / LMS
Who next? My money is on Toyota for F1 and quite a few independants in the LMS (Martin Short's Rollcentre Racing)
source?
Soldato
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Short has already put the Pescarolo up for sale, and wont be competing in the LMS anymore, he is concentrating on his Mosler program.
Don't forget that Group S was penciled in to replace Group B. Less stringent rules, less cars needed to comply and more speed pretty much assured but that never arrived as Group B was deemed too much due to the indcidents that occured. Times are different and Group B is history so no point comparing what it would be like today. Group B were not actually the most powerful cars to rally in mainstreem rallies, don't forget in the 70's they tarmac rallied Group 5 cars, 935K3's with upto 800bhp so its all relative and of course the Targa Floria was more like a tarmac rally than a race.
I was in my late teens and went to all of the Group B RAC rallies and also some of the other rallies in the UK where they competed and they were MUCH more spectacular than a WRC car but they were miles behind in terms of tech. Sure if the rules were carried forward they would be quicker but when I see people refer to Group B monsters, for they were, as quicker I take issue because in most instances on a stage they weren't. 0-60 and 0-100 yes, not question, but then trick diffs and other such movements were not present but had they gone Group S it would have seen Pike Peaks type performance in the forrest!
Some of the crashes we have seen in the last few years of WRC would have killed a Group B driver back in the day THAT is where the big improvement has been made together with the improvements in braking and tractions aids. Power in a rally car becomes less beneficial as traction and braking are the key really as WRC shows and why a Group B car with 600bhp is slower than a WRC with 300bhp through a stage. I am sure putting 600bhp down today would be much more capable but its still a law of diminishing returns.
From what I have heard, there is supposedly going to be an optional "bolt on" pack made up of a specced turbo, an aero pack and a couple of other bits, that will add no more than 50bhp to a standard S2000 car, to make an S2000 WRC car. So basically not worth the extra money and effort.