Bailiffs permitted to use physical force against homeowners
- Thread starter Indy500
- Start date
Soldato
I like to think our area is fairly safe, but we've had people poking their heads into the rear garden, some asian guy actually came into our garden when my housemate caught him in the garden and told him to GTFO.
We get a load of letters addressed to previous students and have tried contacting the companies several times to inform them that they no longer live here but the letters keep coming.
If they come into the house and try and restrain me i will be fighting back... might not win, but i'll give it my damnedest and at 6'5" and fairly well built I hope it would deter them somewhat, at least long enough for them to let me call the police.
My main thought though, is whether they can just take anything they want or do they have to know who it belongs to? My housemate has a 46" HDTV, blu ray, 360 all in the lounge so if they come in through the front door its the first lot of stuff they would see. Would they just take that and disappear?
Also after breaking in do they have to re-secure the property or can they just leave the front door smashed open when nobodies home allowing anybody to walk in and take stuff?
We get a load of letters addressed to previous students and have tried contacting the companies several times to inform them that they no longer live here but the letters keep coming.
If they come into the house and try and restrain me i will be fighting back... might not win, but i'll give it my damnedest and at 6'5" and fairly well built I hope it would deter them somewhat, at least long enough for them to let me call the police.
My main thought though, is whether they can just take anything they want or do they have to know who it belongs to? My housemate has a 46" HDTV, blu ray, 360 all in the lounge so if they come in through the front door its the first lot of stuff they would see. Would they just take that and disappear?
Also after breaking in do they have to re-secure the property or can they just leave the front door smashed open when nobodies home allowing anybody to walk in and take stuff?
Soldato
If someone breaks into my home and uses physical force to restrain me i'm not going to stop until one of us isn't trying anything for the time being.
Having someone break into the house and use physical force on you could be harmful to you and this is what the new law is allowing.
Man of Honour
Anything they find while searching the property except the things you can't do without to live by are fair game - housemate's property included. If he has receipts with his name/details on then they'll either consider them there, or quite possibly take the goods anyway and expect such evidence to be produced and the items reclaimed (at owners expense). :/
So they can legally harm you, but you can't use reasonable force without justification? Well the justification is in the part of having a 6ft bald geezer trying to restrain you surely?!
I'm not in the position where it would affect me, but saying that potentially anyone living in a property could be put in the position where some meathead could kick your door down, restrain you while another takes your stuff and claim they are debt collectors? Is this correct?
I'm not in the position where it would affect me, but saying that potentially anyone living in a property could be put in the position where some meathead could kick your door down, restrain you while another takes your stuff and claim they are debt collectors? Is this correct?
Soldato
Great, so its now going to be legal for a few guys to turn up, break in and take anything they like while one of them tries to hold down anybody in the house.
Given the amount of complaints on here alone about incorrect bailiffs, they've just legalised robbery.
Permabanned
We had someone hammering violently on the door at 7 in the morning one Saturday, after my beloved hubby had already left for work. The 2 kids were crying hysterically as it woke them up with such a start and I was in my 'only for bed' t-shirt and not much else. I hate to think how much worse this would have been if they had actually kicked the door in.
BTW, the debt was in a relative's name, but as ours is so unusual, they decided that we were easier to find and sent the debt to us. Yes we had called the company upteen times, but this didn't stop them repeatedly visiting and telling us that each time they came out, £120 would be added to the amount owing if we didn't pay.
BTW, the debt was in a relative's name, but as ours is so unusual, they decided that we were easier to find and sent the debt to us. Yes we had called the company upteen times, but this didn't stop them repeatedly visiting and telling us that each time they came out, £120 would be added to the amount owing if we didn't pay.
Soldato
As I understand it:-
1) These are proposed changes ....NOT LAW YET : Write to your MP and ask them to vote against it.
2) A debt collector has no rights at all and should not be confused with bailiffs. Bailiffs are appointed by the court, debt collectors aren't.
3) If you have debts, your creditors will have to go to court to get a judgement (you get informed and given a chance to reply); once the judgement is made, and you don't pay, Bailiffs may be appointed to try to recover the debt but they will have a court order to show when they call.
4) Bailiffs being told that under 2004 regulations they can break in will be collecting court FINES and NOT civil debt.
5) Get your facts straight before you go Alpha; talk about lynch mob mentality!
If you want to change things, go the correct route and you stand a chance; using violence because you think you know your facts when actually, you don't, is pretty dodgy.
1) These are proposed changes ....NOT LAW YET : Write to your MP and ask them to vote against it.
2) A debt collector has no rights at all and should not be confused with bailiffs. Bailiffs are appointed by the court, debt collectors aren't.
3) If you have debts, your creditors will have to go to court to get a judgement (you get informed and given a chance to reply); once the judgement is made, and you don't pay, Bailiffs may be appointed to try to recover the debt but they will have a court order to show when they call.
4) Bailiffs being told that under 2004 regulations they can break in will be collecting court FINES and NOT civil debt.
5) Get your facts straight before you go Alpha; talk about lynch mob mentality!
If you want to change things, go the correct route and you stand a chance; using violence because you think you know your facts when actually, you don't, is pretty dodgy.
Caporegime
Soldato
1) Will look into doing that.
1, 2, 3, 4)
5) Given that they're already getting wrong addresses, personal details and breaking into the wrong houses I don't think i've got my facts that mixed up. I did mis-read the whole, has already happened/is about to happen thing but i got the majority of it. Under your own point, given scenario 3, someone has an old tenants address (my current address) and have sent warnings etc to them. The post either gets thrown out or left on the side as its not addressed to us. The old tenants don't get the letters, don't turn up to the court appeal, it all goes ahead by the courts order. One day the bailiffs turn up
Given my current example of the fact we've had letters sent to this address, replied explaining we are new tenants and have still received final warnings anyway its not hard to predict there'll be a balls up along the line somewhere.
All i'm saying is if it did happen, they'd think they are in the right after having gone through the correct channels, i know they're not right because its my stuff and unfortunately it'll be within my property where the initial meeting/confrontation will reside. Only they'll have the powers to restrain anyone inside who causes a fuss.
Soldato
A fine is NOT a civil debt.
If there are Bailiffs wanting to gain entry, you should be able to show evidence that you are not the debtor and they 'should' go away.
I'm not on their side at all and feel much as everyone else but it is still a proposal and a fine is not a credit card debt or similar.
If there are Bailiffs wanting to gain entry, you should be able to show evidence that you are not the debtor and they 'should' go away.
I'm not on their side at all and feel much as everyone else but it is still a proposal and a fine is not a credit card debt or similar.
Soldato
You said debt collectors have no rights, where as bailiffs do. In the example it was a bailiff who was there... not a debt collector. Regardless of whether it was a fine or not, a bailiff was incorrectly appointed and granted himself access. Given that this is before the ruling has gone through, i'm trying to point out just how out of hand it could get if the ruling is to pass.
Associate
Both barrels through the letterbox. Its the only way!
Soldato
No you're not, this is Britain, you have to use reasonable force.
Of course "reasonable force" in the eyes of our justice system is offering any burglar/trespasser a bad cup of tea, and putting on Radio 4 for half an hour.
Try anything that would actually halt their crime or get rid of them and you're up the creek with a future of droppped soap. [/generalisation]
+1 I hate to be touched and some one would most likely be getting there nose chewed off!
Caporegime
Comrades! Break into the homes of the poor, beat them savagely with clubs, and march forward into the 21st Century with New Labour!
Man of Honour
Maybe someone should write a short and sweet template and then we can all send it. With enough support this could turn into a bit of a PR disaster.
Man of Honour
As Berserker has said, no you can't, at least not legally. You are allowed to use reasonable force and it must be proportional to the threat posed to yourself (or in exceptional circumstances someone that you defend). If you do use self-defence as an excuse (an exclupatory defence i.e. it is a complete excuse of all guilt) then it will be evaluated according to whether you had reason to require to use it and whether you responded in a reasonable fashion - there is some leeway given for emotional distress that you would be operating under but certain behaviours cannot and will not be excused so say kicking a man while down and offering no threat would never be allowed, carrying an offensive weapon and using it to defend your property is pretty shady too etc etc.
You're allowed to defend yourself with reasonable force, if you choose to go beyond that then that is up to you, bear in mind that there probably will be repercussions from it though.