Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Tefal · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:45

sr4470 said:
What did it achieve? Absolutely nothing, all it did was harden the resolve of their enemy.

So the Israeli government should just sit back and watch it's people die?

They've already blockaded the entire region, only the Egyptian part of the border is open to anyone fleeing Gaza.

Yet not even the Egyptians want them.

non of the other countries that Palestine shares borders with wants them.

But what does blockades have to do with you pretty much saying it;s ok because the Palestinians use unguided weapons?

Doran · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:45

Zip said:
History shows jews have more rights to the land then the Palistinians.

The palistanians never really had much claim of any land and the land they did have is now sitting in Jordan IIRC

2000 years ago?

THen lets kick the whites out of America too.
And Australia then.

The logic is absurd.

And its not about rights anyway; its about what works. And putting an alien religion in an alien land is not a good idea, epsecially if supported by the already hated and imperialist west.

Tefal · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:46

Class 04 said:
by the already hated and imperialist west.

Would this be the hated and imperialist west you so happily live in?

Greenlizard0 · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:47

Zip said:
History shows jews have more rights to the land then the Palistinians.

The palistanians never really had much claim of any land and the land they did have is now sitting in Jordan IIRC

I don't think that's quite right. It's just case of by the time the Jews had cause to mass move there (post WWII) there were relatively few Palistinians. Of course over time they're numbers grew and the shift post 1945 must have seemed like an invasion to them. Cue today's problems.

Doran · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:48

Tefal said:
Would this be the hated and imperialist west you so happily live in?

What are you implying?

Chimerical · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:49

Tefal said:
So the Israeli government should just sit back and watch it's people die?

But the argument is that by retaliating to everything, you're causing more of your own people to die, because the opposite side will retaliate to your retaliation, thus killing more Israeli's in this case.

The only way to prevent anymore bloodshed is to literally stop the attacks.

Dave M · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:51

dirtydog said:
Jets firing missiles into heavily populated civilian areas? Nice. And then they wonder why Hamas attacks them

Because they're Jews and they hate Jews? I think God told them to or something.

Doran · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:51

I always thought the Japanese intellectuals were interesting post world war II.

They were pacifists. The kind of attitude America and Israel and belief that force is the only way becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Ie, force is needed. And so Japan refused to get invovled every again as it was against their beliefs. (until Iraq, which is why it was so controversial there)

Violence breeds violence.

I th

Atrox Moris · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:51

Chimerical said:
The only way to prevent anymore bloodshed is to literally stop the attacks.

You can't stop attacking or defending or retaliating or whatever against a people who want you wiped off the face of the planet.

Doran · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:53

Telescopi said:
Because they're Jews and they hate Jews? I think God told them to or something.

Very few of the problems in these areas are ideological. Like in Ireland.

Much of it is essentially political, which grows of out poverty. What really drives it and every conflict is a power struggle. Religion just latches onto it; a badge from which to identify the sides.

Indy500 · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:53

Tefal said:
So the Israeli government should just sit back and watch it's people die?

What makes you think they care about their population? They conscript pretty much everyone into the IDF at some point in their lives, the country is dependant on foreign aid and military spending is more important than welfare programs it seems (if Lebanon 2006 was any indication).

Tefal said:
But what does blockades have to do with you pretty much saying it;s ok because the Palestinians use unguided weapons?

They're only going to encourage more attacks. The UNRWA programme was only able to run for 5 days of the month. Starving people are only going to become desperate and support the armed response. Either way, its hardly an equal fight like you make it out to be.

Doran · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:54

Atrox Moris said:
You can't stop attacking or defending or retaliating or whatever against a people who want you wiped off the face of the planet.

'Wipe off the planet' is just rhetoric. If Iran, for example, actually wanted to do that they would have already.

Its like cold war rhetoric; it dont mean nothing!

Chimerical · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:55

Atrox Moris said:
You can't stop attacking or defending or retaliating or whatever against a people who want you wiped off the face of the planet.

But Palestine won't wipe them off the face of the planet.

Israel are too strong and have the backing of the U.S. plus some nukes.

To carry on endlessly fighting is absurd. Whats the ultimate solution with force?

Nukes? Which would contaminate as many Israeli's with radiation? I don't think so.

Zip · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:56

Class 04 said:
2000 years ago?

THen lets kick the whites out of America too.
And Australia then.

The logic is absurd.

And its not about rights anyway; its about what works. And putting an alien religion in an alien land is not a good idea, epsecially if supported by the already hated and imperialist west.

No right through history.

Even when the Ottoman empire had it there were still quite a few jews there.

Either way Palistinians still should be firing weopens at Jordan if they want the land they actually lived on.

And If Isreal Shouldnt be there then the Turks should have it.

Fanatic · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:59

The strongest will survive, most likely the Israelis.

Zip · 27 Dec 2008 at 13:59

Chimerical said:
But Palestine won't wipe them off the face of the planet.

Israel are too strong and have the backing of the U.S. plus some nukes.

\

That doesnt matter to them.

Palistinian Groups like Hammas And Fatah will fight to the death even if its to wipe out a Fraction of the Isrealis.

If Isreal Stopped the Palistinians wouldnt anyway. They would just enjoy having the oppitunity to fire rockets when ever they want knowing they arnt getting bombed afterwards

Chimerical · 27 Dec 2008 at 14:02

Zip said:
That doesnt matter to them.

Palistinian Groups like Hammas And Fatah will fight to the death even if its to wipe out a Fraction of the Isrealis.

If Isreal Stopped the Palistinians wouldnt anyway. They would just enjoy having the oppitunity to fire rockets when ever they want knowing they arnt getting bombed afterwards

How do you know that though?

Hamas wasn't always around. They were created in 1987; I assume as a result of this conflict.

So Hamas ended this current ceasefire. Yes, that was stupid. But Israel was hardly slow to retaliate back either. Why can't people over there get it that this is an unwinnable war?

The only solution is to stop fighting or nuke the entire country. Otherwise the Palestinians and Israelis can both happily look forward to another 60 years of conflict.

Tefal · 27 Dec 2008 at 14:03

sr4470 said:
What makes you think they care about their population? They conscript pretty much everyone into the IDF at some point in their lives, the country is dependant on foreign aid and military spending is more important than welfare programs it seems (if Lebanon 2006 was any indication).

Wow who'd have thought a country which is under constant attack considers it;s defence budget to be it;s highest priority?

And LOL @ national service = not caring about the people. Are the Swiss evil too then? And all the people on here crying out for Good ol NS to make a return to britain.

They're only going to encourage more attacks. The UNRWA programme was only able to run for 5 days of the month. Starving people are only going to become desperate and support the armed response. Either way, its hardly an equal fight like you make it out to be.

Where did i make it out to be an equal fight?

Tefal · 27 Dec 2008 at 14:05

Chimerical said:
How do you know that though?

So Hamas ended this current ceasefire
.

well like that^^.

Hammas where offered peace but broke it, so of course Israelis retaliated. If hammas had kept it;s side of the bargain like the Israelis where then this wouldn't of happened.

They where offered a chance they turned it down, kind of proves even when they arnb;t being attacked they'll attack anyway.

They just treat ceasefires as regrouping and rearming times.

Tefal · 27 Dec 2008 at 14:09

Class 04 said:
'Wipe off the planet' is just rhetoric. If Iran, for example, actually wanted to do that they would have already.

Its like cold war rhetoric; it dont mean nothing!

if Iran tried it on with Israel it would just be another 6 day war.

hell to be fair, it would probbably only be 3 days this time.

Gotta love a country that when someone tries to cluster **** it, beats em down in only 6 days.

Especially considering they where holding back.