Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Nelly · 2 Jan 2009 at 14:28

The way I look at it is this, some terrorists i.e Hamas fire some Rockets at Israel & kill/would a couple of people, because of this the rest of the Palestinians have to suffer & over 400 people including a lot of Children die.

To me Israel are a lot worse than Hamas, theirs no easy solution but killing innocent victims in random air attacks does them no favors.

I kinda hate Israel because of this, they are no better than Hamas in terms of their retaliation methods.

They should do more to get rid of Hamas instead of taking it out on innocent victims such as children.

KNiVES · 2 Jan 2009 at 14:42

Kinda? Israel are one of the most disgusting and vile countries in the world. They invaded and stole land, and are still doing this day by day under the pretense that they are 'God's chosen'. They starve and shut off a population of 6 million. And now they annihilate children who were just leaving school.

Hamas can go away for all I care, but the real victims here are the civilians, and Israel really doesn't give a **** about them. The Palestinians are seen as subhuman, and they have no qualms about re-enacting the Warsaw ghetto on their neighbours.

Sankari · 2 Jan 2009 at 15:04

KNiVES said:
Kinda? Israel are one of the most disgusting and vile countries in the world. They invaded and stole land, and are still doing this day by day under the pretense that they are 'God's chosen'.

Err... no. They returned to their historic homeland, which was (a) still inhabited by Jews (despite centuries of Arab and European invasion), and (b) theirs by right. The earliest Zionists were largely secular (not religious) and based their views on historical grounds.

The issue was voted on by the UN, which overwhelmingly decided that the Jews did actually have the right to possess their own homeland (a no-brainer, really). I think you'll be working hard to prove that this decision was made on religious grounds. In fact, the same principles have been used to determine indigenous land rights all over the world (Canada, USA, Australia, NZ); so to undermine the Jewish claim is to erode indigenous land rights for a great many people across the globe.

SINCE THEN, the Israelis have certainly dispossessed Palestinians from their own legitimate landholdings (though they have also given them some land under recent peace accords; ie. Gaza & the West Bank, both of which used to be under Egyptian control).

But the land of Israel itself (and Jerusalem in particular) is the Jews' own; it does not belong to the Palestinians (who comprise a many faceted group of ethnic Arabs, the vast majority of whom had moved to Israel from surrounding Arab states during the past 100 years).

Interestingly, the Palestinians' own claim to Jerusalem is based solely upon religion. It was never their city; they have never owned it; they simply think it should be theirs because they've got an old mosque in it.

Stolly · 2 Jan 2009 at 21:23

Nelly said:
The way I look at it is this, some terrorists i.e Hamas fire some Rockets at Israel & kill/would a couple of people, because of this the rest of the Palestinians have to suffer & over 400 people including a lot of Children die.

To me Israel are a lot worse than Hamas, theirs no easy solution but killing innocent victims in random air attacks does them no favors.

I kinda hate Israel because of this, they are no better than Hamas in terms of their retaliation methods.

They should do more to get rid of Hamas instead of taking it out on innocent victims such as children.

You would feel better if Israel fired 300 unguided rockets into Gaza per day yes ?

Stolly · 2 Jan 2009 at 22:31

KNiVES said:
It is a bit of an overreaction, isn't it? I also wouldn't have expected a country like Israel to simply retort 'NO' to pretty much every other country on the planet's pleas to give it a rest.

Then you have the comment article on BBC news - where the BBC took the perspective of one Palestinian and one Israeli. The Palestinian says how the children are dying and those who survive will have to live with the trauma for the rest of their lives - while the Israeli glibly says what is happening in Gaza is 'fantastic' because 'my roof has been severely damaged'. I kid you not.

I'll have more sympathy for the "Palestinian street" and its views towards children when they stop encouraging their use as expendible weapons.

Both sides have people that are as bad as the worst people on the other side.

platinum87 · 2 Jan 2009 at 23:19

whats the point of that picture? its just a joke tbh

Stolly · 2 Jan 2009 at 23:28

platinum87 said:
whats the point of that picture? its just a joke tbh

Why does it make you feel uncomfortable ?

Overlag · 2 Jan 2009 at 23:53

Stolly said:
Why does it make you feel uncomfortable ?

theres a picture just like that with an american boy in it. to be fair we could probably post pictures of jews before israel fighting "locals" so they could claim the country to be theres.

Stolly · 3 Jan 2009 at 00:13

Overlag said:
theres a picture just like that with an american boy in it. to be fair we could probably post pictures of jews before israel fighting "locals" so they could claim the country to be theres.

Really ? i've never seen it. Please post it if you can find it.

To be honest, the Gazans and Palestinians in general have a right to defend themselves if the Israelis enter Gaza, but they have a cultural problem that they need to address when it comes to manipulating children into becoming "martyrs".

Nelly · 3 Jan 2009 at 01:01

Stolly said:
You would feel better if Israel fired 300 unguided rockets into Gaza per day yes ?

I'm sure Standard Fireworks has plenty left over from November 5th, with the credit crunch etc, maybe Israel should get some rockets off them?

fraps · 3 Jan 2009 at 02:15

David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) quote:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

Tefal · 3 Jan 2009 at 02:20

fraps said:
David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) quote:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

didn;t he die almost 40 years ago?

oh and you bolded the wrong part. There you go

But nice attempt at twisting his words

Although I think you've got to remember his other famous words..

If an expert says it can't be done, get another expert”

Stolly · 3 Jan 2009 at 10:31

Nelly said:
I'm sure Standard Fireworks has plenty left over from November 5th, with the credit crunch etc, maybe Israel should get some rockets off them?

Great idea, but since that probably won't kill anyone, Israel should snatch 4 random people of a street in Gaza and shoot them, all in the interest of fairness.

Deadly Ferret · 3 Jan 2009 at 11:26

malc30 said:
Heard this on the radio 2 news & just thought to myself why the **** isn't the Whole World shouting about it

Because fortunately the people that matter, the ones that could actually do something about it, get reliable information rather than the propaganda you lot are lapping up in the spirit of gullibility.

I remember you from when I was a more active poster, and I have to say I'm surprised you buy into this emotionally-charged, biased guff. I thought you were more sensible Malc.

platinum87 · 3 Jan 2009 at 11:31

fraps said:
David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) quote:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

Tefal said:
oh and you bolded the wrong part. There you go

so did you!

fraps · 3 Jan 2009 at 13:09

Tefal said:
But nice attempt at twisting his words

David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) said they stole their country plain and simple, its not twisting his words, its a direct quote

And that's what actually happened

Sankari · 3 Jan 2009 at 13:23

fraps said:
David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) said they stole their country plain and simple, its not twisting his words, its a direct quote

No, that's not what he said. Read it properly. He said this is now the Palestinians see it. He did not actually say that this is what happened.

And that's what actually happened

No, it's not. The UN voted on it and agreed that the Jews should get their land back. Since that time, they have certainly stolen land belonging to individual Palestinians. But Israel belongs to the Jews, as does Jerusalem.

The Palestinians were not a united people in 1947; they did not have a government; they did not have a state; they did not even call themselves "Palestinians" (a name invented for them by Yasser Arafat in the 60s) and they did not have their own country. They were just a bunch of random Arabs who happened to be living in the same area. They are not indigenous to Israel.

"Palestinian" is not a distinct ethnic group (the Palestinians are all ethnic Arabs); there is no distinct Palestinian language or Palestinian culture, and there is no distinct Palestinian history. It's all Arabic.

I don't mind arguing with people who disagree, but I can't tolerate wilful ignorance. Read the history and get your facts straight.

icey_haj · 3 Jan 2009 at 14:11

I see Bush is still spouting rubbish about how it's all Hamas' fault, and not criticizing Israel on killing hundreds of civilians.

The UN said it believed 25% of more than 400 Palestinians killed by Israeli action so far were civilians.

You simply cannot justify the amount of force Israel is using, killing innocent civilians everyday. A perfect example of which is in the video below:

Stolly · 3 Jan 2009 at 14:12

Evangelion said:
No, that's not what he said. Read it properly. He said this is now the Palestinians see it. He did not actually say that this is what happened.

No, it's not. The UN voted on it and agreed that the Jews should get their land back. Since that time, they have certainly stolen land belonging to individual Palestinians. But Israel belongs to the Jews, as does Jerusalem.

The Palestinians were not a united people in 1947; they did not have a government; they did not have a state; they did not even call themselves "Palestinians" (a name invented for them by Yasser Arafat in the 60s) and they did not have their own country. They were just a bunch of random Arabs who happened to be living in the same area. They are not indigenous to Israel.

"Palestinian" is not a distinct ethnic group (the Palestinians are all ethnic Arabs); there is no distinct Palestinian language or Palestinian culture, and there is no distinct Palestinian history. It's all Arabic.

I don't mind arguing with people who disagree, but I can't tolerate wilful ignorance. Read the history and get your facts straight.

I don't know how many different ways of repeating the same thing you are going to have to find during the course of this thread

Stolly · 3 Jan 2009 at 14:13

icey_haj said:
I see Bush is still spouting rubbish about how it's all Hamas' fault, and not criticizing Israel on killing hundreds of civilians.

You simply cannot justify the amount of force Israel is using, killing innocent civilians everyday. A perfect example of which is in the video below:

25% of 400 is 100. So its a hundred civilians, according to you. Not "hundreds"