EU says Microsoft violated law with IE on Windows

Amusing thing is, if Windows were to come with no browser, normal people would simply have to go into a shop and buy one.

And guess which they'll be buying... :p
 
AcidHell2 said:
And totally pointless, it's other people amking poor browsers or crap advertising. Look how much of a chunk firefox has taken from them.

Competition law is stupid, in a lot of cases like these. Should deal with buyouts, business practice and pricing. Not telling people how to make there product.
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+1 couldn't put it quite so succinct
 
Strife212 said:
Yeah - at stealing money from big corporations. That's all its about.

If its your only PC you cant even download another browser without IE.
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Erm it's not like that - around a year ago, I bought XP which had IE excluded from it due to European Commission restrictions, and it had Firefox pre-installed on it. Windows without IE don't just come without any browser at all, they will come with an alternative and a small reminder that IE isn't included. You seriously can't think they actually sell Windows without any browser functionality.
 
fini said:
Read the context of what I was saying again - I wasn't saying Microsoft was forcing anyone I was saying I'm not forcing anyone to use an alternative browser.
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New users they do not care about browsers. Whether they have a choice or not they don't care. People like us we also have a choice we can install any browser we want.
 
RockLobster said:
Harming competition and innovation are you serious? Firefox, Safari and Opera have developed many innovations which IE 8 is now trying to copy. I agree the standards thing is annoying but that's because some of my fellows (developers) are too lazy to make their websites compliant.
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If IE was fighting on an equal footing don't you think that it would have shown some innovation itself rather than just copying what the competition is doing 2 years down the line? Equally if it was fighting on an equal footing it would have been standards compliant years and years ago. I don't blame the developers - it's not difficult to make websites standards compliant - it's difficult to write all the extra CSS etc to make the website then work in IE!
 
That's pure idiocy if you ask me.

Microsoft have made two products, one that runs on top of another, yet they're not allowed to combine them? They have to use someone else's?

By that logic, car manufacturers should be using their own engine/chassis, but someone else's interior. Food manufacturers should be using their own ingredients, but someone else's recipe.

It's ridiculous.
 
regardless of weather it right or wrong, its a bloody waste of EU money, MS will just make another "token" release, we shall call it "windows 7, turd edition" for the purpose of this thread.
When Win7-TE is released, no one will but it, not OEM's, not users either.
It will be quickly forgotten and life will go on. the only difference is, a bunch of Eurocrats would have wasted a lot of time and money.
 
fini said:
If IE was fighting on an equal footing don't you think that it would have shown some innovation itself rather than just copying what the competition is doing 2 years down the line? Equally if it was fighting on an equal footing it would have been standards compliant years and years ago.
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i don't think that's the real issue though, MS had to work to get in the market position they are in today, why should they be penalised for making good marketing decisions because the vast majority of the competition aren't working as hard as MS are at getting their product out? if you want the average person to want your product you have to make them want it over what they are used to.
 
fini said:
Even Microsoft says that it has fundamentally changed many of its practices since previous run-ins with the Commission.
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Yeah it's called releasing stuff they know wont sell but keep eu happy for 6months. I bet those changes haven't been for the best, but to keep eu happier.

when's the last time you seen opera advertise? never..
When's the last time you seen fiirefox advertise - when it first came out.
 
fini said:
If IE was fighting on an equal footing don't you think that it would have shown some innovation itself rather than just copying what the competition is doing 2 years down the line?
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Actually I think probably not. Microsoft are spending more time and resources on their big money markets. They are diversing more into enterprise products. I think of IE just like Wordpad, the inbuilt Firewall, etc. It does a basic functional job which is an integral part of the OS.
 
vincent1989 said:
i don't think that's the real issue though, MS had to work to get in the market position they are in today, why should they be penalised for making good marketing decisions because the vast majority of the competition aren't working as hard as MS are at getting their product out?
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Nobody has any problem with that. What they have a problem with is when doing such amounts to an abuse of their dominant position.
 
RockLobster said:
Actually I think probably not. Microsoft are spending more time and resources on their big money markets.
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Only because they know that they can sit back and everyone will still use IE because it's bundled anyway. Look back at before IE was bundled and how hard Microsoft tried to work on and improve IE then - the difference is huge.
 
This browser business is a nothing at the end of the day. What does annoy me slightly is how difficult it is buy a PC from Dell, etc without Windows. That's what the EU should be concentrating on not this bloody nonsense.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Yeah it's called releasing stuff they know wont sell but keep eu happy for 6months. I bet those changes haven't been for the best, but to keep eu happier.
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Microsoft claims to have made far more fundamental changes to how they operate than simply making the Windows version without WMP - giving companies access to more of their APIs for example.
 
fini said:
Only because they know that they can sit back and everyone will still use IE because it's bundled anyway. Look back at before IE was bundled and how hard Microsoft tried to work on and improve IE then - the difference is huge.
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and look at the development since FF has come about. It is not starving competition or creativity in a wrong way. It is others being lazy and wanting a helpiing hand.
 
fini said:
Microsoft claims to have made far more fundamental changes to how they operate than simply making the Windows version without WMP - giving companies access to more of their APIs for example.
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They had to, they didn't want to. And in the case of the security control panel and it's workings is absurd.
 
mrk1@1 said:
This situation with MS is more like a Sony Centre being made to sell non Sony products.
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I was explaining what anti-competitive legislation is all about and why it exists against complaints from people that the concept is stupid.
 
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