Because being convinced there is no God is exactly the same leap of faith as being convinced there is a God. I don't really understand how anyone can claim to be atheist without making themselves look completely irrational. You cannot know either way for sure so you surely must be agnostic...(or an atheist, but then you'll be unable to use any kind of rationality arguments against religion)
OK! Now we have atheist nutters!
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
Because being convinced there is no God is exactly the same leap of faith as being convinced there is a God. I don't really understand how anyone can claim to be atheist without making themselves look completely irrational. You cannot know either way for sure so you surely must be agnostic...(or an atheist, but then you'll be unable to use any kind of rationality arguments against religion)
I don't understand how that article indicates that the atheist group are "nutters"...
Or just be a person.
If you are warned by your employer not to do something and then you continue to do it I can understand why you would get into trouble. Would I complain if a nurse was distributing leaflets and offering to pray for me? Probably not, but I would find it irritating and I would probably ask them to stop.
It is a leap of faith, but it isn't exactly the same leap of faith as being convinced there is a specific God. In general, as an atheist, you are only making one ("Gods don't exist") in most cases when you are religous you make two ("My God exists and the other Gods don't exist" or "My God exists and all the other Gods are just aspects of the divine"). Also with religion you tend to have to buy in to more than just the existence of God(s) you also have to buy in to some or all of the "stories" about said God. Using Christianity as an example you have to take several leaps of faith with the Bible.
The truely rational approach is "I just don't know" and you go agnostic (or alternatively "I just don't care").
I also lol'd at
Some of the early posters need to go back and read that again as I also thought I'd better..
I read it as thus,
She was pulled up for handing out a Prayer card in 2008, now she is being lambasted again for further "spreading the Lords love"
Of course the "atheists" are going to be blamed for pulling her up on it. The church surely isn't!!
Tell the nurse to do her job and leave it at that, her beliefs should NOT be part of the care she gives.
Some of the early posters need to go back and read that again as I also thought I'd better..
I read it as thus,
She was pulled up for handing out a Prayer card in 2008, now she is being lambasted again for further "spreading the Lords love"
Of course the "atheists" are going to be blamed for pulling her up on it. The church surely isn't!!
Tell the nurse to do her job and leave it at that, her beliefs should NOT be part of the care she gives.
You are a nurse. Your job is to provide healthcare.
You do not under any circumstances preach to patients. If they want to convert to Christianity they can go to a sodding church.
I hate bible bashers (evangelicals especially) who shove their religion towards others. And if I was in a hospital bed and some nurse started preaching God & Jesus to me I'd angrily tell her to stop.
She got what she deserved.
/thread
edit: To clarify, if the nurse asked me if I was Christian and depending on if I said yes, only then she offered to pray with me, then fair enough. But just going ahead and doing it is wrong.
You do not under any circumstances preach to patients. If they want to convert to Christianity they can go to a sodding church.
I hate bible bashers (evangelicals especially) who shove their religion towards others. And if I was in a hospital bed and some nurse started preaching God & Jesus to me I'd angrily tell her to stop.
She got what she deserved.
/thread
edit: To clarify, if the nurse asked me if I was Christian and depending on if I said yes, only then she offered to pray with me, then fair enough. But just going ahead and doing it is wrong.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Oct 2003
- Posts
- 16,119
- Location
- Chengdu
It is the same thing, plenty of people wouldn't want to hear a load of prayers tosh about a sick relative. I know I wouldn't want one of them offering the service...
It's equal rights gone sensible.
She asked an elderly woman if she wanted her to pray for her, the woman said no and it was left at that
sorry, see my ninja editShe asked an elderly woman if she wanted her to pray for her, the woman said no and it was left at that
She asked an elderly woman if she wanted her to pray for her, the woman said no and it was left at that
Actually if it was left at that then nothing would have been done, but the woman complained too.
Because most proper (those that have actually thought about it) atheists don't define atheism as it is in a general dictionary. Thus, atheism isn't (solely) being convinced that there is no god. Define atheism like that and you exclude the worlds most prominent atheist and 95% of the rest.
Some people think defining it differently is simply a tool to 'recruit' more atheists but it's up to you to decide personally.
The definition you give is largely useless because almost everyone who classes themselves as atheist is really agnostic. But in my opinion agnosticism isn't an alternative to atheism.
We've had massive threads about it before.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Jan 2009
- Posts
- 4,325
She said she'd pray for someone. Theres nothing wrong with that.
I honestly think if someone tries to enforce views on me they can go **** a rusty spike, if she'd been going round spouting the word of the lord or asking everyone to pray and read the bible then a disciplinary and possibly a suspension maybe. But she was just being nice.
If you said you had an orange in your hand and you did, then you could show me.
Show me god.
It's popular cult, but it gives people something to believe in i guess, so it's tolerated.
I mean if you believe in the bible wholy you're completely barmy, it says at one point that the sky was like a dome over the flat earth.
I honestly think if someone tries to enforce views on me they can go **** a rusty spike, if she'd been going round spouting the word of the lord or asking everyone to pray and read the bible then a disciplinary and possibly a suspension maybe. But she was just being nice.
If i told you there was an orange in your hand, you could disprove it by showing me there wasn't an orange.
If you said you had an orange in your hand and you did, then you could show me.
Show me god.
It's popular cult, but it gives people something to believe in i guess, so it's tolerated.
I mean if you believe in the bible wholy you're completely barmy, it says at one point that the sky was like a dome over the flat earth.
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 28 Jun 2007
- Posts
- 52,812
- Location
- Tamworth, UK
Where should I go to show you God? The only reason that I can show you that there is not an orange in my hand is that an orange is tangible, and my hand is a specific place to look. If I told you to go find the number 3, you would look at me as though I was nuts. That's not to say that the number 3 doesn't exist though.
I agree with the atheists (I am one for full disclosure). The fact is the person the nurse offered to pray for took offence and reported the matter which she is perfectly entitled to do. It is not the nurses job to offer to pray for someone and I doubt very much that is the kind of thing they teach nurses to do. The nurse should have informed the woman of the hospital services including the availability of a hospital chaplain if desired. It is not necessary to be religious for a nurse to be nice or kind or compassionate or an exemplary professional so it is best not to bring religion in to the situation as the NHS is a non-religious organisation but with the facilities and non-medical pastoral staff to cater for the religious at the same time.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2003
- Posts
- 57,684
- Location
- Stoke on Trent
I honestly don't get this thread.
Why are the atheists 'nutters'?
All they said was they agreed with the Trust
I thought there was going to be a video of an atheist preaching their none god.
Why are the atheists 'nutters'?
All they said was they agreed with the Trust
I thought there was going to be a video of an atheist preaching their none god.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2004
- Posts
- 14,315
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Histonia, Cambridge
By the sounds of that it was more than just a suportive prayer.
I for one would be extremely ****** off if one of my careers tried to "sell" me Christianity whilst ill in hospital. If you want some support from the church all you have to do is ask. Most hospitals have a chapel onsite.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 27 Sep 2004
- Posts
- 25,821
- Location
- Glasgow
It seems a bit of a non-story really, as has been said isn't the atheists fault either.
I can't say it would bother me personally if someone wanted to pray for me, any more than it would bother me if they did a rain dance, I suspect they both have about the same chance of being answered (odds marginally in favour of rain in Scotland) but it is meant to be a nice gesture so I'd try to take it in that spirit. However this lady had already been warned once not to pursue a course of action where she could (rightly or wrongly) be viewed as pushing her religious beliefs onto another yet she still did it, while I don't think the offence itself is all that serious the fact that she ignored instructions from her employer is or should be the principal reason she is suspended.
I can't say it would bother me personally if someone wanted to pray for me, any more than it would bother me if they did a rain dance, I suspect they both have about the same chance of being answered (odds marginally in favour of rain in Scotland
) but it is meant to be a nice gesture so I'd try to take it in that spirit. However this lady had already been warned once not to pursue a course of action where she could (rightly or wrongly) be viewed as pushing her religious beliefs onto another yet she still did it, while I don't think the offence itself is all that serious the fact that she ignored instructions from her employer is or should be the principal reason she is suspended.