Thatcher Barred

[Morba]

That's not the point. There's no historical stigma or hurt that can be resurrected by calling somebody Smithers or Tintin. It's not as simple as that and anybody that says otherwise, should know it. It's a derogatory term for all black people like the word "****" is for anybody that's brown.

At the end of the day it probably happens all the time, but when you have a public job you can't just go about and say what you want. Ron Atkinson learnt this, Glenn Hoddle did as well.

makes no bloody difference! the bloke looks like something that EXISTS. so whats wrong with saying he looks like a golliwog?

If the bloke was just some random black man, then fair enough, it could be construed to be wrong. but given he looks like a golliwog, whats the problem?

 

[Pilky01]

Ross did what he did on air, Thatcher did not.

 

[Nitefly]

The issue was offence. Who caused the most?

That assumes that 'offence' is going to be the only thing taken into account, which is unrealistic. Ross is a AAA star of the BBC. Also, he apologised immediately at the time of his comments.

makes no bloody difference! the bloke looks like something that EXISTS. so whats wrong with saying he looks like a golliwog?

If the bloke was just some random black man, then fair enough, it could be construed to be wrong. but given he looks like a golliwog, whats the problem?

A gollywog has negative connotations since they were the villains of the Noddy books.

In other words, he looks like a thieving villain, based on his colour. Not a pleasant thing to say, even if it wasn't intentional to have that meaning.

 

[Spie]

The apology was just words to save his career. He's a grown man. He knew full well what he was doing.

 

[jas72]

must have been all the gollywogs that phoned in complaining

note for mods:

gollywogs don't exist except on robinson's jam jars. It's like saying fairy is offensive....


Actually it is a childrens toy

The "Golliwogg" (later "Golliwog") is a character of children's literature created by Florence Kate Upton in the late 19th century, inspired by a blackface minstrel doll which Upton found as a child in her aunt's attic in Hampstead, north London. The character, depicted in the books as a type of rag doll, was reproduced, both by commercial and hobby toy-makers as a children's toy. The toy was known as a "golliwog", and had great popularity in North America, Britain, Europe and Australasia, into the 1960s. While home-made golliwogs were sometimes female, the golliwog was generally male. For this reason, in the period following World War II, the golliwog was seen, along with the teddy bear, as a suitable soft toy for a young boy.

Why was she talking about a childrens toy ?

 

[Nitefly]

Actually it is a childrens toy

The "Golliwogg" (later "Golliwog") is a character of children's literature created by Florence Kate Upton in the late 19th century, inspired by a blackface minstrel doll which Upton found as a child in her aunt's attic in Hampstead, north London. The character, depicted in the books as a type of rag doll, was reproduced, both by commercial and hobby toy-makers as a children's toy. The toy was known as a "golliwog", and had great popularity in North America, Britain, Europe and Australasia, into the 1960s. While home-made golliwogs were sometimes female, the golliwog was generally male. For this reason, in the period following World War II, the golliwog was seen, along with the teddy bear, as a suitable soft toy for a young boy.

Why was she talking about a childrens toy ?

Saying a golliwog can't be offensive in certain contexts as it was originally a toy is like saying the swastika can't be offensive in centain contexts as it was originally a symbol of peace.

I'm not even going to try to guess what context she used it in, it's not relevant. She should have known it could have caused offense and used it anyway.

 

[Azagoth]

Give me a spot on the BBC, it'd be more of a "who can't he offend?" situation.

 

[Cosimo]

Give me a spot on the BBC, it'd be more of a "who can't he offend?" situation.

What would you do?

 

[chimaera]

I don't really care about what she actually said, i'm just glad she's off the tv.

She shot herself in the foot by making a stupid comment, then did it again by not apologising...i have no time for people who cause their own downfall, especially ones who haven't really doing anything of note except being born to someone important.

 

[Azagoth]

What would you do?

Nothing apart from be my politically incorrect self. It wouldn't be all bad though, I'd actually dedicate the show to our "Equality & Diversity Officer".

 

[Andrew1978]

Can anyone think of any term that is racist/derogatory towards white people? i've thought of redneck, white trash, chav etc but they dont seem to carry the same weight as those directed towards other races, is that because they aren't really that offensive or should we be up in arms?

I was trying to come up with something similiar to this situation and about the only thing i could think of that seemed close was referring to a fat white man as the michelin man.

So can anyone think of something that mimicks the OP but applies to white people?

 

[Spie]

Honky?

 

[fini]

Johnathen Ross did something 100 times worse, on air, and got a 3 month suspension. It just shows how ultra PC the BBC can be whilst being incredibly lenient with really offensive behaviour.

Jonathan Ross:

• Was joking
• apologised
• is actually worth keeping
• was only directly offensive against one person rather than a whole race
• wasn't (IMVHO) actually offensive (his comments taken out of context just seemed so)

 

[Dolph]

So who is boycotting the One show to try and change the BBC's attitude?

 

[DAnDan]

So who is boycotting the One show to try and change the BBC's attitude?

People who need to get a grip on reality.

 

[Andrew1978]

i wouldn't be offended by it and all the ones i found while looking wouldn't offend me either (there is actually a racial slur database) although its not official it gives a lot more insight than i'd ever seen before.

I just dont see how someone can be sacked over something like that and i feel its more to do with people being offended as a way to try and show to everyone else that they aren't racist, opposed to someone actually taking offense. It might have a lot to do with the people i'm around but you need to have thick skin some times and a quick come back

People pay money to watch shows full of racist jokes and they all laugh merrily away because it's "just a joke." You see white people at chris rock shows laughing, are they secretly sat there mortified, thinking of the poor black people he might be offending? are they racist because they laugh?

One thing i've realised about "white racism" is that it isn't really to do with race and more about location and status and it's a lot more prevalent and accepted than people take notice of.

As for the one show, i sent that adrian guy an email asking him if he'd be offended if i said he resembled the michelin man, doubt anything will come of it but i'm on nights next week so needed to kill time

 

[Nitefly]

One thing i've realised about "white racism" is that it isn't really to do with race and more about location and status and it's a lot more prevalent and accepted than people take notice of.

Well, of course it is going to be. You can't take racism in terms of 'one insult against one race' vs. 'another insult against another'.

White people have never* been the minority. They have always had their rights. As a white person, I have no idea what it might be like to have a history of opression against the colour of my skin. I imagine I might be highly sensitive about it.

So whilst honkey is a racist slur and should also be avoided, I don't think it has the historical impact of words such as ****** or ****.

Is that a case of double standards? I would argue not quite, but that it is more a case of taking into account realistic historical circumstances.

*I'm sure there are examples where they are, but I am talking generally in western culture.

 

[Andrew1978]

Would you consider hitler a racist?

(in case you're wondering where i was going with that, i think he put white on white racism on equal footing as white vs colour.)

 

[Spie]

Jonathan Ross:

• Was joking - Really?
• apologised - To save his career.
• is actually worth keeping - Debatable. He's funny sometimes but goes too far.
• was only directly offensive against one person rather than a whole race. Offended a whole family and the general public.
• wasn't (IMVHO) actually offensive (his comments taken out of context just seemed so) - Disagree.

The BBC is clearly hypocritical here but BBC management have failed to impress for years. Too many women running TV these days.

 

[Nitefly]

Would you consider hitler a racist?

The fact that he refused to congratulate Jesse Owens implies so. However, Jews are not a race so I'm not sure what you are getting at.