Illegal file sharing on the Internet, what should we do?

[~J~]

Piracy is not going away anytime soon.

The only way to prevent it imo is to reduce the price of things and lessen restrictions.

For example, make music downloadable for £5 for a full album in MP3. People want MP3 as a format and the ability to burn it to disks to use on other computers or in the car.

Sell console games at a sensible price. If a brand new 360 game was £20-25 then people would not bother to copy as much. Also release games worldwide at the same time!!! I know no end of people who had ps2/xbox games up to 6 months earlier than in the UK as they downloaded (illegally of course) it in JAP or NTSC.

The music companies selling at £5 per album in mp3 format is much cheaper than they sell CDs for.......but £5 is better than £0 as the potential customer has torrented it.

Still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

If 5 Albums came out at Christmas (Best of, Compilations, etc) that's still £25 you've to fork out. If it's available for free, people will want it and put their money elsewhere.

Same as the games, there's a lot of us members (maybe you too) that can remember the Spectrum/Commodore64/Amstrad days and Mastertronic selling their games for £1.99.

MOST of them weren't very good I agree, but despite them being "crap" or "average" and at "pocket money" pricing, they were still heavily pirated.

Honestly can't think of any solution and don't think it will go away at all to be honest.

Seen many many attempts over the years, some good ideas such as a free download of an album but it being of lower quality, but no one is going to want to purchase a full album wih 128Bit digital encoding if they're only going to play it on their tinny earphones on the latest Sony Walkdude or Apple iPod shuffliedoo.

Although have heard recent discussions with a gaming company who are thinking of having emblems and adverts as part of the game to fund for any potential lost sales and offering the game at a discount price. Should the 'player' want a version without adverts or a sexy Lara Croft not wearing a spicey little number with "B&Q" on the back, they'll pay for the 'full none-advertisement' game.

Don't think anyone has really thought of any solution yet.

 

[v0n]

I work for years in media and multimedia industry and I grew to strongly believe piracy, the true "free for all" piracy is absolutely needed, necessary and to a degree - it should even be encouraged. It is only because industries, be it music, game, film or tv, are from the ground up bad for customer and absolutely corrupt. Hear me out.

It is only because of piracy that:
- you don't have to wait 12 months between movie release in US and release around the world anymore. To give you an example - in 1999 Star Wars Episode 1, being the most anticipated title of the entire decade, would take two long months before premiere in US and premiere in Leicester Square. Release in China was whooping SIX MONTHS after original release. Who, on earth, makes 1.3 buuuuuiiiilllliiiiooooon people wait six months for Skywalker? Because of piracy, and only because of piracy, in 2002 Star Wars Episode II was shown in US and all around Europe in almost the same time (literally few hours difference). Nowadays new Indiana Jones is released in 48 hours across entire globe. Touchdown and score. Viva Internautica.

- you don't wait 6, 12 or 18 months for TV series release. In 1994 UK viewers had to wait 7 months for second season of hugely popular X-Files Season Two on Sky. Germans had to wait 13 months. Today, only thanks to internet piracy, you have to wait 4 days between Lost premiere on ABC and Lost premiere on Sky. Muchos gracias little glftpd curries.

- you don't have to wait 2 years for DVD releases. The Complete Second Season of Friends was released on DVD in US on September 3, 2002. That's 7 years of sindications and TV exclusivity before DVD release. It was available for region 2 on October 25, 2004. Two years and one week after US... These days, Heroes season one was released in US on August 28, 2007, 11 months after TV premiere. It was released on September 3, 2007 in UK and September 17, 2007 in Australia and New Zealand. That's because of Johny Torrent and his buddies. Ta very much.

And then there is another side of it. The original internet movie pirates, back in VCD times, weren't teenagers with a digital camera hidden under coat in "theater" somewhere in god forsaken part of Bronx as per Seinfeld parody, but rebelious guys releasing (for free) stuff which was pressed on silvers in far east countries. They were, in a manner of speaking, stealing from the real thieves. From companies and people making big money on US and later European streets flogging dodgy tapes and illegal video CDs with movies. The internet pirates would release it for free, before retailers would even receive their black market products from pressers. The internet pirates would often run into problems because of it. But well hidden under cloak of private ftps and chain of untraceable couriers such was the character, the robbinhoodery of pir@tes pirating Pirates in those days. So, in essence - the reason why you don't see Barry Cockney flogging £20 VHS tapes with cams from under the table on Camden Market is because internet pirates put greedy pirates out of business. The "piracy sponsors organized crime" adds you see sometimes? That's exactly who piracy killed off - the people who used to make money out of intelectual property theft.

And so the story goes - if it wasn't for pirates ripping CDs you wouldn't have iTunes, if it wasn't for pirates breaking codecs and insisting on more portable encoding standards, you would be paying for mp3 and mp4 codec, you wouldn't have DVB-S2 and HD format would be exclusive to bunch of a-holes who thought it would be good idea to sell you media but allow you to play it only once. The iPlayer, internet replays and reruns are finally here only to keep you from walking away from your channels and downloading it from binaries. Idea of pita DRM is dying because of pirates are there to offer hussle free alternative.

So I say, don't do it - because it bad, but good work, pirates. And thank you.

 

[Glaucus]

^^^
Totally agree with that. Due to the sheer amount of piracy, companies have had to change to there ways in line with customer demand.

 

[Jotun]

2 - Offer benefits for purchase over download (e.g. multiplayer gaming, "map pack keys", t-shirts)

Personally, I think this is the best option. Offering the consumers something the pirates can't have as an incentive to buy it. Album art, or online play are 2 good examples, I heard that vinyl sales lately have gone up as people like the feeling of a nice solid product.

Spore is an example, the obvious benefit was the online play, it would have been enough to persuade a lot of people to purchase the full game if it hadn't had the DRM, and instead it crippled it so the pirated product was better than the version for sale. If companies offer something so that the consumer gets a better product than a pirate would then I think that is the best approach.

You not tried ubuntu? A trained monkey could install that.

I tried ubuntu once. I installed it fine, however once I actually tried to use it I had so many problems. It seemed pretty much every problem I had could only be solved by editing configuration files manually using a text editor. It's not exactly intuitive. I wanted to like it, the idea of free open source software really appeals, so I've tried it a few times since then, but every time I try I just end up giving up and going back to windows.

 

[DominicStar]

That is true, but many programs still take a fair while to cross the pond. Dexter is always the best part of a year behind and Scrubs about six months? My Name is Earl is usually an entire series behind in the UK.

Isn't that essentially the same marketing model used by cigarette firms?

Fixed

 

[jas72]

The latter.

People/bands like Radiohead (to a lesser extent) and Trent Reznor off of Nine Inch Nails have shown that changing the business model can be a success.

I also think the price of CD's does not adequately reflect the cost of production either.

The band takes couple of months to lay down some tracks and expects me and all other mugs to fork out 15 euros. Also have you seen the amount of people they thank. If it was going to the band i'd think it was great but most of the CD goes to the likes of S. Cowell et al.

The amount of money made by the band should be what the records costs 20p per track should be the going rate.

 

[jas72]

Most companies will use Ms because it's well supported, works out the box and most people know how to use it.

Linux is complicated to set up, doesn't support all hardware and no-one knows how to use it. A Ms power user, wouldn't have the first idea how to do anything in linux apaprt from basic opening and closing applications.

And taht's why people are educated to ms products, as that is what most of them will use in the work place.

As for home use it does not support games.

Companies use MS as it comes with guarantees for support, stability and guarantees of support of X amount of years per product. Something that linux (whilst catching up still doesn't offer enough of to compete.)

 

[Sweetloaf]

Here's a few cliches for you:

Piracy effectively costs the industry nothing becuase the pirates would have never put their hands in their pockets to buy a game/album anyway.

I'll stop downloading albums when my favourite bands own countless Ferraris and the record bosses are living on the streets.

Pirated games are worthless, most people who download regularly are so swamped with games that they rarely bother playing them, a payed for game on the other hand will make you put a bit more time in to get your money's worth.

Downloading an album is the equivalent of copying an LP to tape for a friend which we did years ago.

If people put effort into creating a decent product, I'll let them have some of my money in return.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Here's a few cliches for you:

Piracy effectively costs the industry nothing becuase the pirates would have never put their hands in their pockets to buy a game/album anyway.

I'll stop downloading albums when my favourite bands own countless Ferraris and the record bosses are living on the streets.

Pirated games are worthless, most people who download regularly are so swamped with games that they rarely bother playing them, a payed for game on the other hand will make you put a bit more time in to get your money's worth.

Downloading an album is the equivalent of copying an LP to tape for a friend which we did years ago.

If people put effort into creating a decent product, I'll let them have some of my money in return.

Some very good points there.
It is true that when you can download every new pc game out you rarely actually play any of them for more than an hour!

The best point you made is the pirates of games 90% of the time would not have bought the game in the first place!!

Everyone with a PC bar one or two grannies perhaps has or has had copied films or mp3s on there, anyone who says they have not are not telling the truth!

I got orange box off steam for £16.99 the other day. Fantasic bundle of games, fantastic price. However I would not have seen it worthy of £35. Not saying I would torrent it, I just would not be willing to pay that as it is not much new apart from TF2 and portals.

 

[~J~]

Here's a few cliches for you:

Piracy effectively costs the industry nothing becuase the pirates would have never put their hands in their pockets to buy a game/album anyway.

Not exactly true. Name your favourite music artist and their latest album. It's Saturday morning, you're just about to go into town to buy the album, can't wait to play it when all of a sudden your friend emails you a copy of that album. Do you still go? If not, it's a lost sale. End of.

What infuriates me is when a company uses something like Photoshop everyday and doesn't pay for it. I'm sure there's loads of people on here with Photoshop that use it perhaps once a month and would never dream of buying it. Personally, I don't think that's much of a problem; like you said, it's not as if they'd have gone out and bought it anyway, just a bit "cheeky bugger(ish)".

I'll stop downloading albums when my favourite bands own countless Ferraris and the record bosses are living on the streets.

Do you not think your 'favourite bands' have earned it? Why shouldn't their hard work whether it's singing crap down a mic or spending months of laborious hours in a record studio pay off for them?

Pirated games are worthless, most people who download regularly are so swamped with games that they rarely bother playing them, a payed for game on the other hand will make you put a bit more time in to get your money's worth.

This is true, however having said that this is where I don't think the industry has an issue and can't really complain about a lost sale. I know many people who have literally hundreds upon hundreds of CD's ripped onto their MP3 players for the sheer sake of it. I refuse to believe it's a lost sale because they'd never have bought it in the first place.

Downloading an album is the equivalent of copying an LP to tape for a friend which we did years ago.

Still illegal though isn't it?

If people put effort into creating a decent product, I'll let them have some of my money in return.

That kinda negates your argument about your fave musician having Ferrari's though?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Piracy has been happening since the amiga days,

How young are you?
I was swapping ZX80 cassette tapes.

 

[Vulcan]

whoactually wants to watche a dogdy screen cam version of a film ,when yo can goto the cinema

Those still exist? Most downloadable movies these days are DVD Screeners.

Why would I want to go to the cinema and pay £8 for a ticket, and £5 on food and drink, when I can watch a brand new movie in the comfort of my own place, with my own damn snacks.

The movie companies need to offer high quality downloads, until they do, it's their loss.

 

[Matteysan]

TBH they need to fight fire with fire.

Hire a 1000 people whose only job is to release duff copies of stuff. So it becomes so hard to find a legit copy, people are more likely to buy it.

They did that with Mediadefender & look where it got them

 

[Glaucus]

Piracy effectively costs the industry nothing becuase the pirates would have never put their hands in their pockets to buy a game/album anyway.

rubbish. If you had no other means of getting it, you would pay. You wouldn't have a big a collection but you would buy it. I see that excuse post a lot but it just isn't true.

 

[Sweetloaf]

Not exactly true. Name your favourite music artist and their latest album. It's Saturday morning, you're just about to go into town to buy the album, can't wait to play it when all of a sudden your friend emails you a copy of that album. Do you still go? If not, it's a lost sale. End of.?

Currently, The Aliens are my favourite new(ish) band. They have so far released two albums, the first album I bought 5 copies of and gave, or posted them to friends. The second I have paid for 3 copies to date. I would possibly listen to the emailed copy but buy it anyway.

What infuriates me is when a company uses something like Photoshop everyday and doesn't pay for it. I'm sure there's loads of people on here with Photoshop that use it perhaps once a month and would never dream of buying it. Personally, I don't think that's much of a problem; like you said, it's not as if they'd have gone out and bought it anyway, just a bit "cheeky bugger(ish)".?

Agreed, most applications these days have freeware equivalents for mainstream users, people are just too lazy to look around.

Do you not think your 'favourite bands' have earned it? Why shouldn't their hard work whether it's singing crap down a mic or spending months of laborious hours in a record studio pay off for them??

Yes, my favourite bands have earned it which is why I would like to see more money in their pockets and less in the pockets of record bosses. The Radiohead album In Rainbows was released as a download and you could pay anything you wanted. I paid £3 happily knowing that the money pretty much went straight to the band or contributors to the artwork or website. If I paid £15 in HMV, that same band would see approximately £1.

This is true, however having said that this is where I don't think the industry has an issue and can't really complain about a lost sale. I know many people who have literally hundreds upon hundreds of CD's ripped onto their MP3 players for the sheer sake of it. I refuse to believe it's a lost sale because they'd never have bought it in the first place.?

The other problem is that people cannot afford to buy everything they want, if people download 100's of albums and maybe end up listening to 10 of them, when they do have the money to spend, they will consider buying an album by one of those bands. Who loses out there?

Still illegal though isn't it?

Yup.

That kinda negates your argument about your fave musician having Ferrari's though?

Nope, I'd just love to see a shift in power in the gaming, music and film industry. Although certain actors are vastly overpaid.

 

[Sweetloaf]

rubbish. If you had no other means of getting it, you would pay. You wouldn't have a big a collection but you would buy it. I see that excuse post a lot but it just isn't true.

I wouldn't if I thought it was overpriced. I do buy things that I want, let's just say that piracy is not high up on my regular pastime list. When I say effectively costs the industry nothing what I mean is that the amount it actually costs is negligible.

If I had no money I would pirate without a doubt, I'm no millionaire but if something is worth playing/listening to then it's also worth my cash if I have enough of it to spend.

As I said, these are all cliches, that's why you've heard that excuse a lot.

 

[rsatd]

To person wanted ntlworld email, try logging in here, worked for me just now.
http://webmail.ntlworld.com/en_US/ntlworld.com/

 

[Yaser1987]

I'll share until i dead because can't carry all prices for every thing

 

[clv101]

So the Pirate Bay is up in court at the moment for sharing copyrighted material (or at least facilitating the process of allowing people to share these materials)....

We have blacklists which ISPs use to block certain illegal sites like child pornography. I don't understand why sites like Pirate Bay can't be similarly blacklisted. It's not a total solution but it would have a big impact in a simple way.

 

[Sweetloaf]

We have blacklists which ISPs use to block certain illegal sites like child pornography. I don't understand why sites like Pirate Bay can't be similarly blacklisted. It's not a total solution but it would have a big impact in a simple way.

Because if ISPs started restricting access to such a degree, people would choose a different ISP. That's not good business sense. Traffic shaping etc has probably had a large influence on which ISP people go with, it's the same principle.