For those who are religious
- Thread starter daven1986
- Start date
I believe in christ and the bible. I'm not catholic or protestant, nor do I associate with any church order.
Christianity is about your relationship with christ and about bringing the cross to your life and instead allowing christ to rule you. Giving up your own self-worship and earthly desires for that of Gods purpose for you.
The Bible is not something to be read with an earthly mind. It is... I guess I could describe it as "coded" in a sense you need to see behind the words for the spirit to speak to you.
Christians who go around claiming they're saving people by having someone confess once that they want christ in their lives are not christians. People cannot SAVE anyone in this world, it is only through a living relationship with christ can a person be saved, not from a one moment confession.
God draws people to him. Not man, not christians. Only God can truly set the desire in the hearts of men and invite a person into his family. Even then it takes a life long relationship with christ to be a child of God.
Christianity is about your relationship with christ and about bringing the cross to your life and instead allowing christ to rule you. Giving up your own self-worship and earthly desires for that of Gods purpose for you.
The Bible is not something to be read with an earthly mind. It is... I guess I could describe it as "coded" in a sense you need to see behind the words for the spirit to speak to you.
Christians who go around claiming they're saving people by having someone confess once that they want christ in their lives are not christians. People cannot SAVE anyone in this world, it is only through a living relationship with christ can a person be saved, not from a one moment confession.
God draws people to him. Not man, not christians. Only God can truly set the desire in the hearts of men and invite a person into his family. Even then it takes a life long relationship with christ to be a child of God.
Thanks, far better explained that I ever could!
I am open to any other suggestions on this. Have you any other references that suggest the soul isn't eternal?
Probably worth proving that the 'soul' exists before moving on to proving its duration.
Ok, everything I believe I base on the bible so here goes with another quotation.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Like eggyoke said above the Bible is not something to be read with an earthly mind.
It cannot be proven by anyone living. This 'question' is next to meaningless.
edit: Sorry to enter this thread late.
All the other passages about death being final. Trouble is the bible loves to contradict it's self. But if your going to belive in it. Then I would say you would have to believe in the most talked about. seeing as it is a collection.
How can the penalty for sin be death if you are alive. how can god refashion earth. How can the righteous walk on the ashes of the sinners, how can he eliminate sin if sinners are still alive so on and so forth.
seeing as hell is on earth, but yet the righteous walk on the ashes of the sinners. how would he then create the new world without sinners. as they would still be there burning for eternity.
But I still can' see how you could worship someone that is willing to make people suffer for eternity. This is meant to be a loving and peaceful God.
How or why would your body need to be resurrected if your soul was already in heaven. That makes no sense at all.
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& Here lies the problem - it is impossible to have a rational discussion with people taking this view. If you take the view that if something is written in the bible it must be correct regardless of how implausible/impossible or down right unpleasant it may appear, there really is no sense in debate.
my point exactly
Wouldn't classify myself as religious but I am muslim. I don't practice my religion as much as I should do even though I do intend too. I have gone through the whole thought process of trying to find certain answers and after a bit of reading around especially into other religions it brought me back to Islam. Still I always like to try and find out and learn more.
Islam states that every nation since the beginning of mankind was sent a messenger/warner, even though by name only 25 are mentioned in the Quran. According to the hadith there were in fact many thousands of messengers. This I suppose explains why most religious scriptures all have the same underlying message yet have been changed (according to Islam) by people over the ages to suit their own needs.
To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.
Quran 10:47
The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped aught but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message?
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).
Quran 16:35-36
Islam teaches that each prophet/messenger was sent to a certain nation of people, and only to them as even confirmed by the Bible;
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:5-6
15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
I use the above quotes from the Bible because as a muslim I believe the Bible to be a book of God, although the reason I cannot follow it is because it became corrupted by man, and is no longer in its original form. This even goes on today in front of our eyes, new versions are still being released, constantly revised and updated. The word of God however doesn't need updating surely?
There are many many examples of man made errors in the Bible, just a few;
13.So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land?
II SAMUEL 24:13
11. So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
12. Either three years' famine;
I CHRONICLES 21:11
3 years of famine or 7?
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign,
II CHRONICLES 36
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign,
II CHRONICLES 36
8 years old or 18 years old?
And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians,
II SAMUEL 10
But the Syrians fled before Israel: and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots
I CHRONICLES 19
700 or 7000?
The list goes on but you get the point. If these have crept in, what else has changed, its hard to determine. Infact it is the very reason the Quran was sent, and on it is a promise of Gods protection from corruption.
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
Quran 15:9
If you actually buy arabic Qurans from anywhere in the world today, and compare them, they will be identical. Its been preserved through being memorised by heart. The translations into different languages will obviously vary as this is mans best attempt to translate the words of God.
Back onto what I was saying, a messenger was sent to every nation of people, so you might be wondering why is their no messenger now? Well the last of all the prophets was Muhammed pbuh and he was not sent only to the arabs, he was sent to all of mankind and his message (the Quran) is still here in its original form;
We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.
Quran 21:107
O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Quran 4:170
Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
Quran 7:158
Now there are many things which muslims, christians and jews have in common but there are also differences. If Jesus pbuh or Moses pbuh were here today every muslim on the face of the earth would be following them, but their message was only for a certain nation at a certain time. The most quoted prophet in the Quran is non other then Jesus pbuh.
"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ, Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous, She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (Quran 3:45-48).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (Quran 19:30-35).
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (Quran 43:63-65)
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (Quran 5:116-117).
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (Quran 5:75).
Infact, even if you study the Bible in detail, you will realise that nowhere does Jesus claim to be God, in fact the very first commandment is not to take any other gods before God.
"The Father is greater than I."
John 14:28
"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
Mathew 12:28
"I can of mine own self do nothing"
John 5:30
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
John 17:3
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
Mathew 19:16-17
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
Deuteronomy 6:4
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
Isaiah 46:9
"But as to that day and the exact time no one knows--not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
Matthew 24:36
This proves God and Jesus, do not share the same knowledge, therefore cannot be one and the same.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:20
It is illogical to suggest that the sins of one person will lie on another, and the above verse shows that we shall each bear own own sins and account for ourselves, exactly what Islam teaches. Not that we just need to accept Jesus and we are forgiven, or that he died for our sins.
The word trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but it is mentioned in the Quran:
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ, Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs. "
Quran 4:171
Muslims also believe one of the major signs of the hour, will be the return of Jesus pbuh, however, he will not return as a prophet. He will bring no new religion neither will he bring a new book, he will come as a follower of Islam. Time obviously will tell.
I'l leave you with the prophet Muhammeds pbuh last sermon and adew verses from the Quran:
Date delivered: 632 A.C., 9th day of Dhul al Hijjah, 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat.
After praising, and thanking God, he said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest); therefore all interest obligations shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib [the Prophet's uncle] be waived.
Every right arising out of homicide in pre-islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al Harithibn.
O People, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to forbid that which Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve in number. Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban.
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words, which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people."
Quran;
Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught by the pen, has taught man that which he knew not. Nay! Verily, man does transgress all bounds (in disbelief and evil deed, etc.). Because he considers himself self-sufficient. Surely! Unto your Lord is the return.
Quran 96:1-8
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).
Quran 22:5
Say: "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! those who receive guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs."
Follow thou the inspiration sent unto thee, and be patient and constant, till Allah do decide: for He is the best to decide.
Quran 10:108-109
After having read some other religious scriptures it only strengthened my faith in Islam, I believe everyone should be open minded and ready to accept things as they discover them. Even though we might be able to fool other people we can't fool ourselves and if we are sincere and honest to ourselves I do believe people will come to the truth, regardless of this no one will be wronged after they die.
and God knows best.
(apologies for the longgg post
)
Islam states that every nation since the beginning of mankind was sent a messenger/warner, even though by name only 25 are mentioned in the Quran. According to the hadith there were in fact many thousands of messengers. This I suppose explains why most religious scriptures all have the same underlying message yet have been changed (according to Islam) by people over the ages to suit their own needs.
To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.
Quran 10:47
The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped aught but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message?
For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).
Quran 16:35-36
Islam teaches that each prophet/messenger was sent to a certain nation of people, and only to them as even confirmed by the Bible;
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 10:5-6
15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24
I use the above quotes from the Bible because as a muslim I believe the Bible to be a book of God, although the reason I cannot follow it is because it became corrupted by man, and is no longer in its original form. This even goes on today in front of our eyes, new versions are still being released, constantly revised and updated. The word of God however doesn't need updating surely?
There are many many examples of man made errors in the Bible, just a few;
13.So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land?
II SAMUEL 24:13
11. So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
12. Either three years' famine;
I CHRONICLES 21:11
3 years of famine or 7?
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign,
II CHRONICLES 36
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign,
II CHRONICLES 36
8 years old or 18 years old?
And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians,
II SAMUEL 10
But the Syrians fled before Israel: and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots
I CHRONICLES 19
700 or 7000?
The list goes on but you get the point. If these have crept in, what else has changed, its hard to determine. Infact it is the very reason the Quran was sent, and on it is a promise of Gods protection from corruption.
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
Quran 15:9
If you actually buy arabic Qurans from anywhere in the world today, and compare them, they will be identical. Its been preserved through being memorised by heart. The translations into different languages will obviously vary as this is mans best attempt to translate the words of God.
Back onto what I was saying, a messenger was sent to every nation of people, so you might be wondering why is their no messenger now? Well the last of all the prophets was Muhammed pbuh and he was not sent only to the arabs, he was sent to all of mankind and his message (the Quran) is still here in its original form;
We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.
Quran 21:107
O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Quran 4:170
Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."
Quran 7:158
Now there are many things which muslims, christians and jews have in common but there are also differences. If Jesus pbuh or Moses pbuh were here today every muslim on the face of the earth would be following them, but their message was only for a certain nation at a certain time. The most quoted prophet in the Quran is non other then Jesus pbuh.
"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ, Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous, She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (Quran 3:45-48).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (Quran 19:30-35).
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (Quran 43:63-65)
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (Quran 5:116-117).
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (Quran 5:75).
Infact, even if you study the Bible in detail, you will realise that nowhere does Jesus claim to be God, in fact the very first commandment is not to take any other gods before God.
"The Father is greater than I."
John 14:28
"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
Mathew 12:28
"I can of mine own self do nothing"
John 5:30
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
John 17:3
"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
Mathew 19:16-17
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
Deuteronomy 6:4
"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
Isaiah 46:9
"But as to that day and the exact time no one knows--not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
Matthew 24:36
This proves God and Jesus, do not share the same knowledge, therefore cannot be one and the same.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:20
It is illogical to suggest that the sins of one person will lie on another, and the above verse shows that we shall each bear own own sins and account for ourselves, exactly what Islam teaches. Not that we just need to accept Jesus and we are forgiven, or that he died for our sins.
The word trinity is not mentioned in the Bible, but it is mentioned in the Quran:
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ, Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs. "
Quran 4:171
Muslims also believe one of the major signs of the hour, will be the return of Jesus pbuh, however, he will not return as a prophet. He will bring no new religion neither will he bring a new book, he will come as a follower of Islam. Time obviously will tell.
I'l leave you with the prophet Muhammeds pbuh last sermon and adew verses from the Quran:
Date delivered: 632 A.C., 9th day of Dhul al Hijjah, 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat.
After praising, and thanking God, he said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that he will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest); therefore all interest obligations shall henceforth be waived. Your capital is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib [the Prophet's uncle] be waived.
Every right arising out of homicide in pre-islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabiah ibn al Harithibn.
O People, the unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which Allah forbade, and to forbid that which Allah has made permissible. With Allah the months are twelve in number. Four of them are holy, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Shaban.
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope of that he will be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words, which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people."
Quran;
Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists), has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous, Who has taught by the pen, has taught man that which he knew not. Nay! Verily, man does transgress all bounds (in disbelief and evil deed, etc.). Because he considers himself self-sufficient. Surely! Unto your Lord is the return.
Quran 96:1-8
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).
Quran 22:5
Say: "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! those who receive guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs."
Follow thou the inspiration sent unto thee, and be patient and constant, till Allah do decide: for He is the best to decide.
Quran 10:108-109
After having read some other religious scriptures it only strengthened my faith in Islam, I believe everyone should be open minded and ready to accept things as they discover them. Even though we might be able to fool other people we can't fool ourselves and if we are sincere and honest to ourselves I do believe people will come to the truth, regardless of this no one will be wronged after they die.
and God knows best.
(apologies for the longgg post
)
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(apologies for the longgg post
Posting realms of unverifiable conjecture is not proving your case it just proves (not proves but supports
) my point in my first post that religious belief is cultural and formed from the same ideologies practiced by parents and peer groups
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Posting realms of unverifiable conjecture is not proving your case it just proves (not proves but supports
I agree with you that many peoples beliefs are cultural but please do not suggest that anyone who chooses to follow a certain religion does so only because their parents did. I think most people reach a point where they naturally question things at least to themselves, and have a 'search' for answers.
Just because you may arrive at a different conclusion, doesn't mean that all religious people are brainwashed by culture. I do agree though that some people will just follow what they are told without ever really questioning it, but then that makes the belief void, because there is no real 'belief' there?
I hope before you totally dismiss something you at least take the time to read through it with an open mind, not making your decision before you have even touched it.
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Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the assumption has been made for the purposes of this discussion that the soul exists?
You're not helping by sitting on the sidelines complaining about the underlying assumptions, when those actually involved in the discussion don't care.
God doesn't really make anyone suffer. He presents a choice and people choose their destiny based on that. Accept Jesus? Heaven. Deny him? Hell. This comes down to God's holiness and the fact that he can't have any sin around him, so anyone who isn't cleansed of their sin can't go to heaven.
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It would appear to me that once indoctrinated into a particular belief system it is very rare to change to a different one. By this I mean Christian to Jew or Muslim and vice versa. I would also content that a majority of people who consider the belief structure they have been brought up in reject it in favour of rationalism.
I have no evidence for this apart from anecdotal which is not the best of course.
before dismissing a belief that a supreme being exists as unlikely I read many books, including the Bible (but not the Quoran or Talmud, see what I mean about staying within ones own belief system) and anti religious books.I thought about the possibility long and hard and concluded that the likelihood of a God is virtually non-existent.
Rubbish he has the power to take life, totally. But yet in your view he torments them for eternity. he says he can't have sin around, but he can in hell? even though hell is on earth and the new earth will be created on this earth. Don't you think along with all the other passages that it's much better and more reasonable to think that he means death by fire and not hell in your terms.
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Disagree. god is omnipotent and omniscient so all things are due to him. AcidHell 2's point about the worship angle being the only way to get to everlasting life just makes me convinced that if there is a God, he is more likely to be malevolent than benevolent.
I honestly don't know whether hell is just permanent death. It could be. I'm not overly concerned to be honest - given the choice, I'd sooner be in heaven than permanently dead, in your best case scenario.
God can be omnipotent and still defer choice to others.