alex jones

You seem totally brainwashed by the mainstream media - eg BBC is totally controlled by UK govenment I know this as Ive Im on their books.
Just to take an extreme view - how do we know you're on their books? For all we know, your claim has just as much truth to it as the stuff Alex Jones and his ilk spout (and no, I'll admit right now I haven't watched the video - and certainly haven't watched the video five times in a row as one of your fellow believers suggested was necessary).

No, the BBC are not entirely independant. Yes, they get stuff wrong. Yes, they get dumped upon by the Government occasionally, but mouthpiece? Care to offer some more solid evidence than 'I'm on their books'?

fus, you do have a point in a way - sources of evidence, however good you may think they are, can be interfered with, especially where secretive groups like Bilderberg are concerned. For all we know, they could have edited the Wikipedia articles that Evangelion quoted to suit their ends. Hey, it's happened before, though usually where people have attempted to give themselves the rose tinted glasses treatment, got caught, and come a cropper as a result.

The problem with the likes of Alex Jones is that they either don't cite any sources at all ('I said it, so it must be true'), or, worse, cite sources that either conveniently happen to coincide with their 'truth', or can be misinterpreted to the same end, or are just plain fake.

Just as an example, if I told you the moon was made of cheese, would you believe me? At one time, I could even have pointed you at Google Moon as 'evidence', even though it was obviously a planted 'easter egg'. However, taking your argument at face value, what evidence do you have that I'm wrong?
 
I have the same amount of contempt for both the people who blindly believe in the conspiracy theories, and the people who dismiss the conspiracy theories out of hand.

You're all as bad as each other.

I'll quote myself from the last thread about the 'Obama Deception', because I'm so god damn good, dognamit.

Me said:
Remain sceptical, listen to all sides of the story, and never make your mind up.
 
Your 'facts' are not facts at all.

What's that supposed to mean? On what basis do you make this claim? Where's your evidence that my facts are not facts at all? Where's your proof? Where's your verifiable data?

All your arguments are based on information which is from the public domain. You may state that this information is true, verifiable, independent and honest, but in reality it is only true to the best of your knowledge.

Well, it is also independently verifiable, which is how I know that it is true. You can determine this for yourself, at your own leisure. It's not difficult.

Your knowledge which is made up from public domain information. Unless you are a member of, say, the Bilderberg group, then you know as little about it as I do.

No, that's a false conclusion. I don't know how much you know about the Bilderberg group, but since you have no idea what I've read or how I've studied the Bilderberg Group, you have no basis for saying how much I do and do not know about it.

Presumptuous? Yes. Are you going to tell me that I'm wrong?

Absolutely. I've read a good deal about the Bilderberg Group; I've even read a first hand account from a guy who managed to enter the hotel where one of their meetings was held, videoed some of its members, and described what they do when they get together. It's all rather banal, to be honest.

People see conspiracy theories because they desperately want the world to be more interesting than it actually is. In reality, the world is a very boring place where humans simply do what they've been doing for thousands of years.

The X Files was fiction; it was not a documentary.

You can't say for certain, that what goes on in those meetings doesn't decide the fate of society any more than the OP can say that it does.

Well, I believe that I can. All the evidence points in the direction of my conclusion, and none of its points in the direction of the OP's conclusion. The OP simply has no evidence whatsoever for his beliefs.

Yes, there are probably some inaccuracies in the video. In fact, most of the stuff is probably made up to suit their own agenda. This is why conspiracy theorists are usually laughed at; their research is never thorough enough to warrant enough attention. Although, (again, are you ready for another big assumption):

You, personally, do not know any more than the OP.

How the **** do you know what I do and don't know? Are you psychic? Are you a mind reader? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Tell me how you know, for certain, that say (and to make it more relevant to the thread);

a) Obama is not a 'puppet' (as said in the video), for other agendas?
b) The Bilderberg group do not decide on the fate of society.[/quote]

Here you commit the logical fallacy of asking me to prove a negative. I could ask you "How do I know for certain that you're not a paedophile?" or "How do you know for certain that Alex Jones isn't lying with every breath he takes?", or "How do you know your bank manager isn't secretly controlling the British government?" But that wouldn't get us very far, would it? It certainly wouldn't prove anything. And you're not proving anything by asking me these questions.

Any rational, sensible conclusion is arrived at on the basis of current evidence. In the absence of any evidence to support the claims made about Obama and the Bilderberg group, and in the presence of the preponderance of evidence against these claims, I can state with certainty that Alex Jones' conclusions are incorrect.

c) That everything is as clear cut and transparent as mass media/government/etc make it out to be.

Not everything is as clear cut and transparent as the mass media/government/etc make it out to be. But then, not everything is as clear cut and transparent as conspiracy theorists make it out to be, either.

In any case, just because not everything is as clear cut and transparent as we're told, doesn't mean that it's part of some sinister world domination plan.

Gosh, I'm really sounding like I believe this stuff now. I don't. I just also don't believe that everything, and everybody, are as honest about what goes on behind closed doors as they make out to be.

Well, duh.
 
FAO Evangelion

You seem totally brainwashed by the mainstream media - eg BBC is totally controlled by UK govenment I know this as Ive Im on their books.

Lets put it this way about media..... lets say you go to a doctor about something - he/she percribes you with a drug. You have total confidence in your doctor right? But do you know you doctor was paid by the drug companys to give you that drug werther you needed it or not! Doctors get bit handouts by the drug companys. Dont you think the media is the same?

I can tell you one fact thats not reported by media - the drug valium gives people altzhimers and children Autiusm. Every Media company knows this but wont report on it... because of blocks from govenment and payments by drug companys.

Anyway - you remind me of an someone who does not believe in God - someone can show you every everidence that God exsists, even miricles performed infront of you... yet you will still need more proof.

Well, that was predictable. I guess the short version is "No Evangelion, I still don't have any proof, any evidence, or any substantiation whatsoever for Alex Jones' ridiculous claims".

Thanks for that. I trust we can move on now?

By the way, what does this mean?

BBC is totally controlled by UK govenment I know this as Ive Im on their books.

"On their books"? What? Eh? Do you mean you haven't paid your TV license? :confused:
 
I have the same amount of contempt for both the people who blindly believe in the conspiracy theories, and the people who dismiss the conspiracy theories out of hand.

You're all as bad as each other.

I hope you also understand the difference between people who believe in the conspiracy theories without bothering to check the facts and people who dismiss the conspiracy theories after proving them wrong.
 
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I recommend that people read THEM: Adventures with Extremists, by Jon Ronson.

Ronson spent a great deal of time meeting with people like David Icke and learning all about their theories. He attended meetings, followed them to stakeouts, and did his best to provide an unbiased account of their findings.

One of the most interesting sections of his book deals with the Bilderberg Group. Ronson actually turned up at a Bilderberg meeting with Jim Tucker (a journalist who has been investigating Bilderberg since 1975). Since they were not able to enter the meeting itself, they hung around the hotel taking photos of the various arrivals. Sadly, they were unable to uncover any evidence of a conspiracy.

Ronson's account is both amusing and insightful.
 
You don't seem to understand what a "fact" actually is. A fact is an objective, demonstrable truth. I have asked you to provide the facts which substantiate Alex Jones' claim. You have failed to provide them.

Alex Jones does not present any such facts in his little movie. He simply makes assertions and expects you to believe him. (And incredibly, you believe him!)

The person demonstrating an inability to debate the facts is you. You have no evidence, you have no proof, and you are totally incapable of formulating a sound argument.

im totally confused by your logic, i shall repeat myself:

edit: just coming back to this, so are you guys trying to tell me that Obama hasnt filled every position in his staff with Lobbyists? are you trying to tell me that he has removed all the troops from Iraq? are you trying to tell me that he has decreased the size of government? are you trying to tell me that hes revoked the illegal wire tapping? are you telling me he has rescinded a number of the PDs that gave Bush & Cheney (and now Obama & Biden) dictatorial like powers? or are you just denying reality for some personal reason? :rolleyes:

you dont seem to understand how a debate works, i have stated that i agree with the content put forth in the Obama Deception which is basically concerning all his complete 'U-turns' in policy (see quote above) but you still refuse to actually call out any of these facts and continually resort to just generally saying 'prove it!', but you wont actually specify what you want me to prove, my point is if you disagree with something please make a specific point of what you disagree with, and then say why you disagree instead of just asking me to generally 'prove it' your a joke Evangelicon and your lucky im even replying to you at all because i know why it may 'seem' to people why you win debates, i have experienced the short end of the stick from you, i know when you start getting owned in a debate you then resort to getting the mods to delete posts and ban members.


I don't think you understand the meaning of the term "documented". When something is "documented", that means it has been demonstrated to be true; it is on record as being a verifiable fact.

You are very strange my freind, denying reality to the 9th degree, why do you decieve yourself so much? i mean, to repeat myself for a third time you are seriously trying to tell me that Obama hasnt filled every position in his staff with Lobbyists? you trying to tell me that he has removed all the troops from Iraq? you trying to tell me that he has decreased the size of government? you trying to tell me that hes revoked the illegal wire tapping? are you telling me he has rescinded a number of the PDs that gave Bush & Cheney (and now Obama & Biden) dictatorial like powers? you are trying to tell me that he has stopped the practice of extra-ordinary rendition? because if you are then either you are delusional or i, along with the mainstream and alternative media, are all wrong but i suspect that you are just denying reality for some personal reason, i know for a fact that Obama has filled almost every single position in his staff with Lobbyists, i know for a fact that Obama hasnt removed the troops from Iraq, i know for a fact that he has increased the size of Government (remind me how many robbery, i mean 'bail out' packages he has forced through?), i know for a fact he hasnt revoked the illegal wiretapping, i know for a fact he hasnt rescinded a number of PDs that give him and Biden dictitorial powers, i know for a fact he hasnt stopped teh practise of rendition, how do i know all this? because Obama admits it, its on the news, its common knowledge if you follow American Politics, hell even people like Keith Olbermann the ultra-liberal fawner has questioned Obama's complete 180 on his campaign promises.

i mean my god, can you please just call me out on one of these facts so we can have a proper debate... but you wont, because you know, deep down, its all true, because its all common knowledge.


For example, he said that Obama had been chosen as the "puppet" of the mysterious "elites", but nowhere in his movie was there any evidence or proof for this claim. He simply said it and you believed him without question.

I guess it just goes over the top of your head, let me try to explain the evdience that Alex Jones uses in this documentary is the facts regarding Obamas policies, he promised 'change', he promised all the things i mentioned above before he was elected and he has done the complete opposite, He got more campaign contributions from the International Banking Elite than anybody, he was selected by the foundations at an early age and sheep dipped, he then dupes the press to nip off to secret Bilderberg meetings, Alex then goes on to the next logical step that people who have an understanding of politics understand because in the world of politics you cant even imagine how much intrigue is involved, people have hidden alliances, people are bought and paid for, people have enemies and its all done behind the scenes if you look into any political regime behind the media facade you will find this, for example take the Nazis, generally schools teach that they were a huge monolithic, well oiled killing machine thats number one goal was to exterminate the jews, they dont tell you how fragmented and chaotic that regime was, they dont tell you who bankrolled Hitler or where his Eugenic beliefs originated from, they certainly dont mention the power struggles between the top guys like Goering, Goebells, Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann etc.. and they certainly dont tell you that the SS, in cahoots with the Zionists wanted to ship all Jews to Palestine and then later Madagascar instead of killing them, i mean their was even Zionist training schools in Nazi Germany to try and instill a national identity for the Jews so they would leave for Palestine... but im digressing... im just trting to say that the world is not as simple as you try and make it out to be and Obama has proven that he is a corporate schill purely by his actions and the pure fact every time he opens his mouth he seems to either lie or do a complete 180 on his policies he stated when campaigning. Ive said since day 1, if you hate G.W. then you are going to loathe Obama - for instance, i work with a Pakistani, when Obama was elected i told him to watch out for an increase in activity in his Country to which he said, 'you crazy conspiracy theorists - Obamas great' (im a conspiracy theorist because i research political matters) to which now he says 'how did you know?!? the US is basically in the north of our country killing people on a daily basis', how did i know? because i know the agenda of the people behind Barak like Brzenski, because i have taken the time to read their memoirs and their books, the funny thing is they dont lie about their intentions they just know that you are too concerned about bread and circus to read it.

thats it though, unless you finally come back with a specific point that you disagree with so that we can debate i shall continue to ignore you, but then again your posts serve one purpose to me... they continually remind me why the world as we know it is going down the pan at an increasing rate because majority of people are as delusional and niave as you and believe that the powers that be are benevolent people that every action they take is for the best possible interests of all free humanity and they are working to ensure the lives of everyone are to be as rich and prosperous as possible and for us all to be living life on a bed of roses, when in reality i believe that the international banking elite is working against the middle class and populations in general to consolodate the wealth of nations into as few hands as possible whilst consolidating their power positions and investments and generally buying up our countries through infrastructure which funnily enough is ensuring our chattel slave status for generations to come... of course thats never happend in history before has it? :rolleyes:
 
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Very good reply Keltik THC.

Except it isn't because all he has done is repeat things as if they were facts. Of course you are going to think it is good because it sort of agrees with your own paranoid delusions. You conspiracy theorists are just like sheep, some random spouts "The Truth" and you all believe it with not an ounce of critical thinking.
 
Keltik THC You have a lot to learn. It is politics when all politicians renege on some of their manifesto commitments. Sad but true. It does not prove that the Global world Conspiracy is trying to keep us as "chattel slaves":confused:
You do not know the things you assert for "a fact".
TBH I admire Evangelion for his patience and hard work in trying to debunk the patent nonsense that you come out with.
 
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Keltik htc I think you need to learn about politics more. First of all if you think a new president can implement many big policy decisions within such a short time (about 60 days) you are crazy. However obama has made good on many of his promises:

orders to close guantanamo - done
stopped the use of 'harsh interrogation techniques' by the cia - done
set a deadline for combat operations in iraq - done (to believe he could ever stop the war in a day or month is naive)
order more troops to afghanistan - done

he has also made strong signals on climate change, appointing scientists to senior positions, allowing states to set individual emissions targets for cars and committing to carbon trading or a carbon tax.

I don't think this represents a complete lie or u-turn as you said it did. Now, obviously there are things obama has not done either because he hasn't had time, he's changed his mind, there are more important things to deal with now - (like the economy!) or he may have lied on some things - though until he has finished his term it would be difficult to back up such a statement.

You keep mentioning wire taps and decreasing the size of government but these were not big campaign issues at all for obama so seem an odd choice for things to highlight. In fact I don't think he mentioned either in any of his big television debates with mccain. Basically he was not elected on these issues.
 
Indeed he wasn't, and why on earth would anyone want to decrease the size of government during a recession? Quite the opposite.
 
There's a comprehensive campaign promise checklist here, updated regularly. It's best to learn what Obama actually promised before claiming that he's kept or broken a campaign commitment. ;)

Fill your boots!

:)
 
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Oh dear, it looks like Vladimir Putin is also a nutcase conspiracy theorist raving about one world government. :o

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0449803320071104

"There are those who would like to build a unipolar world, who would themselves like to rule all of humanity,"

Even Medvedev is cracking up... (they must browse conspiracy websites together?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7591610.stm

"The world should be multi-polar. Unipolarity is unacceptable, domination is impermissible. We cannot accept a world order in which all decisions are taken by one country, even such a serious and authoritative country as the United States of America. This kind of world is unstable and fraught with conflict."
 
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Putin also said that Russia is "respected by admirers as a stabilizing world factor".

Which gives you some idea of his tenunous grip on reality.
 
Cool. What an interesting thread. The interwebz has made so many more people gullable, paranoid....

Conspiracy Theories are called that because they are, quite obviously, thoeries. The clue is in the name. When they start calling them Conspiracy Facts, then I will listen.
 
I skipped to a random segment, it was some nobody saying 16:25 "they even have elected officials saying they will put you in jail if they criticise Obama in public, he is a puppet"

If anyone can prove this, I will bow down and admit that a banking elite has taken over the world, but all this video is garbage, sputtering out nonsense with no backing up of anything.

Prove the bit I've quoted.
 
Keltik htc I think you need to learn about politics more. First of all if you think a new president can implement many big policy decisions within such a short time (about 60 days) you are crazy. However obama has made good on many of his promises:

no, you are distorting my points. i.e. he said he would remove troops from Iraq, and i quote: 'immediately', he has proposed a 'build down' (Orwellian language if their ever was) and to look at the situation in 12 months, which was changed to 24 months... the same as Bush.

or what about his promise to not hire lobbyists? he has filled almost every single position with head lobbyists.

i could go on, but i have already stated this.

orders to close Guantanamo - done
- no its not done and infact its smoke and mirrors, yes he has signed a PD to look at closing the torture facility in Gitmo (Gitmo military base will still be their) within 12 months, but all this is doing is closing the public torture facility and then moving all the 'terrorist' suspects to overseas black gulags in Romania, Hungary, Jordan etc.. where their is even less oversight... how is this 'positive change'???

stopped the use of 'harsh interrogation techniques' by the cia - done
huh?? no he hasn’t, he has kept the PD that permits the use of 'Severe Interrogation techniques' completely against his previous promise.

set a deadline for combat operations in iraq - done (to believe he could ever stop the war in a day or month is naive)

Barack said, and i quote, 'their is no military solution in Iraq, i will remove all troops immediately' he has now proposed a 'build down' moving all the troops removed to Afghanistan (soon to be Pakistan aswell) leaving a force of 40 to 50,000 troops in Iraq... oh yes what a removal of all troops, he cant get them out because more powerful people put them in the first place, i mean they haven’t built US bases in Iraq bigger than the vatican just to leave them to the native Iraqis :rolleyes:

order more troops to Afghanistan - done

oh yes, lets send more troops to be massacred to protect the bumper opium crops, what a great idea. No one has even managed to conquer Afghanistan, not us (the Brits), not the Russians not even Alexander the Great, i read a statistc that said if Afghanistan was laid flat it would be bigger than China, hence its so hard to get under control. So i don’t see how putting more troops into a bloodbath for the benefit of CIA/Mi6 drug smuggling operations is a positive move.

he has also made strong signals on climate change, appointing scientists to senior positions, allowing states to set individual emissions targets for cars and committing to carbon trading or a carbon tax.

Obama has always been in support of the fraudulent claims that humans, specifically the 0.3% of C02 Humans release into the atmosphere every year drives climate change, one of his promises that he has infact not done a u-turn on is basically making Coal plants illegal, his quote 'you can run a coal plant if you want, but you wont make any money' wow, what a great idea, that will single handily make a couple of million people un-employed whilst but more stress on the US energy grid, but yes you are right that is one policy he hasn’t done a u-turn on but purely because majority of sheeple have been co-opted to believe the pseudo-science the small amount of C02 emmitted changes the earths climate, as one climate scientist said, and I paraphrase: ‘to focus on C02 as the driving force of the climate is ridiculous, its like your driving a car and you start having problems with changing gears so you get out your car and then start blaming the bolts on your alloys, totally disregarding the main force behind your car, the engine and the transmission.. i.e. most people ignore that big fiery ball that we see every day, funnily enough it is the main driving force of our climate’, ill leave you their to go down that rabbit hole if you choose.

You keep mentioning wire taps and decreasing the size of government but these were not big campaign issues at all for obama so seem an odd choice for things to highlight. In fact I don't think he mentioned either in any of his big television debates with mccain. Basically he was not elected on these issues.

He said when he campaigned that 'bigger government was not the answer' and that he would remove the illegal wire taps, while he may not of mentioned these on the dog and pony show debates, he did say these things and he has no intention of living up to them.

To illustrate how he is inflating government not to mention the amount of interference he is conducting in the economy which the executive branch has no remit to fiddle with you can go and see his proposals to start a civilian security force equal to the size of the current US military, basically his own type of Sturmabteilung, which would help enforce his will.

Oh, and he’s also proposing mandatory military service for all 18-25 year olds like they do in Israel... which is no surprise when you look at the history of his Chief of Staff.

and i wont start on the 12 or so bills he currently has on the house floor basically trying his hardest to make personal ownership of any firearm or ammunition illegal... which goes completely against the oath he took to protect the Constitution.

I mean his Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel has said that he wants the 'No Fly List' to serve as the database that allows people to have rights or not... i.e. he said if your on the no fly list you are 'not an American' and do not deserve the rights of an American... which in a utopian world, fair enough but in the world when 5 year old kids and old grannies are on the No Fly List for no reason and you have no course to dispute your 'no fly' status its just complete totalitarian madness.

My point: the Freedoms people enjoy in America are still being removed under Obama, infact the removal of liberty is steadily being increased compared to Bush, and no one cares because Obama is a half-black/half-white guy who is very charismatic, its a cult of personality rather than substance and his backers know this.

For instance, when Obama was elected, or running up to the election i would ask people, or they would ask me if they were going to vote i would say if i were to vote i would write in Ron Paul or possibly vote Cynthia Mckinney or even Dennis Kucinich to which most people replied 'who???' illustrating the strangle hold that the mainstream media has over the election, but then i would ask why they are voting Obama and not one person ever came back at me with his policies they all said, 'because he’s fresh, because he’s new, because he sounds like a nice man' etc.. etc.. this is straight out of the Roman Emperors handbook, the Romans stated that if you had problems in a province one solution was to install a governor who everyone hated, who had policies that majority of people didn’t agree with, let it play out for a while then replace him with a nicer version, who would still continue the same agenda but with the facade of being a 'peoples leader'... its not hard to see.

It is my opinion that the banking elite have been in control of the countries for centuries, they are the money changers of the world who hold majority of the worlds wealth and actually issue the currency to our countries (the FED and the Bank of England are PRIVATE run for profit organisations) and they aren’t going to change that, I mean if you had most of the worlds wealth wouldn’t you want to shape the world? If you don’t believe this then you are very naive in my opinion.
 
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