First hifi setup sounds "flat" and disappointing

[Kua]

Hullo there,

I recently purchased my first separates setup:

- Wharfedale 9.1s (second hand but I'm confident that they've been very well looked after),
- Cambridge A5 amp (once again second hand, I know its been used daily and is a year old, bought off the bay, still I felt confident in the seller and like to think I have an eye for a good product, but there is of course no certainty). I now really wish it came with a remote control - not sure whether such a thing can be bought.
- Some cheap £1/metre flat Belkin cable of 15 AWG (not sure how that translates to other measures of cable thickness). Until I can borrow a small allen key I can't use the provided pin connectors. The cable to one speaker is about 1.5m and to the other 1m (I remembered later the lengths should be identical but don't suppose it makes too much difference).
- A £5ish SLX interconnect (I'm using my PC - which has a fairly basic Creative sound card).

Previously I'd been using a cheap Logitech 2.1 setup and couldn't wait for the massive improvement I'd be hearing...

Now first let me make an admission. I didn't listen to this setup before purchasing. Living in the middle of nowhere its really hard for me to get to a hifi shop. The one shop that I did make it too, the bloke was really unhelpful. Even though there was no one else around he seemed unwilling to let me sample any equipment. He just ignored my suggestion in fact. I was ****** off and am tempted to name and shame . As a first-timer this was really offputting. I think he saw I was relatively young and on a low budget and didn't want to bother.

It arrived and I set it up, but after just a few minutes sampling different genres of music I was really disappointed. Music sounds lifeless and "flat". Even at high volumes, the house might be shaking a little more than before but the sound fails to excite! I'm no audiophile so I'm just describing my experience as best I can.

That said there is more clarity in the music: I can pick out individual instruments better. Also sound effects sound more realistic, things like gun shot in films. But more than anything I want to be wowed by the listening experience and that's just not happening.

My old Philips mini system delivered better in this respect. So does the Kenwood system I have in my car. Even the Logitechs did... though they sounded tinny and weak and very much faultered at higher volumes.

A friend suggested I'm missing out on the transients and might benefit from some rear speakers. Its a new term to me but I suppose it must be to do with change. And that fits because I feel as though I'm missing out on the high and low frequencies. The sound is dull, 'middling'.

If I have to start the whole process all over again and research (and listen to!!!) some more speaker/amp combinations in order to find something that's right for me, then so be it. I should be able to resell the kit at a similar price. (though I'll of course make significant loss on delivery charge and other charges).

But is there anything I can do to rectify the situation? Do I have something setup incorrectly? Is there just one link in the chain that needs replacing? Do I just need to get used to better quality sound!!?!??! May be I should just purchase some half-decent 2.0 PC speakers. May be I just prefer the lower quality sound they provide.

Thanks for reading. Please help me out if you can .

 

[-Ad-]

Firstly you have to let the speakers wear in.

Secondly and most importantly, you are not used to how music should sound. A car stereo, cheap mini hifi and especially cheap spc speakers will sound bassy and tinny. You have jsut never heard midrange before and are having withdrawl symptoms from boomy bass and tinnyness

Also, how is it setup in your room, what stands are you using, etc etc ? Also what quality of music are you using from your pc ?

 

[Kua]

Firstly you have to let the speakers wear in.

The previous owner has had them a couple of years, so they should be worn in enough by now. Unless they have to "get used" to the new amp, or something...

Secondly and most importantly, you are not used to how music should sound. A car stereo, cheap mini hifi and especially cheap spc speakers will sound bassy and tinny. You have jsut never heard midrange before and are having withdrawl symptoms from boomy bass and tinnyness

This is my hope. I'll give it some time before dismissing them.

Also, how is it setup in your room, what stands are you using, etc etc ? Also what quality of music are you using from your pc ?

The setup is far from ideal. I only have a small desk and the speakers are positioned at just below ear level either side of the desk. One in a bookshelf, the other on my bed side table. Ones about 50cm away, the other a full metre. At a guess. But I hope to get a 2m wide desk (I have a big room ) and put them equidistant on either side, possibly with those little stand things underneath which just raise them slightly off the table. I've also toyed with the idea of wall mounts. I've got quite a bit about 7m of cable left to play with if I do choose to change things around.

 

[Eddie]

Are you letting the amp warm up before you judge the sound quality?

I don't know what your amp is like but my amp likes to warm up a little before it'll sound right, maybe for an hour or so. There can be quite a difference in the sound quality between a cold amp and a warm amp.

What about the source? Are you using low quality mp3's or something? If you are then maybe try an original CD, see if it sounds better. Have you got an external DVD player you can hook up to your amp? If you have you can try playing a CD in that and see what the sound is like - see if it's different in any way.

I don't really know much about the logitech speakers you have but I imagine the new gear should sound a lot better than they did.

A little tip to help sound quality - put a bit of blu tac under each corner of the speaker as it'll help isolate the speaker from the surface it's sitting on.

 

[rubberduck]

Sorry if I have not read the OP properly... You say you are using your PC as the source which has a basic creative card.... Could this be what is holding you back? Also are you listening to compressed audio tracks (mp3s etc)?

 

[Kua]

Are you letting the amp warm up before you judge the sound quality?

I don't know what your amp is like but my amp likes to warm up a little before it'll sound right, maybe for an hour or so. There can be quite a difference in the sound quality between a cold amp and a warm amp.

Very good point. I don't think I have been. Actually I just came back to listen again, with the amp having been on a few hours now and I'm sure there's a noticeable improvement - in fact its really significant (we're making progress!). I've heard its best to leave it on 24/7. I never like to leave speakers on because even the slightest noise keeps me up... not sure if that will be the case with this setup though, I'll try tonight with volume turned all the way down.

What about the source? Are you using low quality mp3's or something?

Yes, I am. Though I'm trying some FLAC files as I type.

If you are then maybe try an original CD, see if it sounds better.

Will do.

Have you got an external DVD player you can hook up to your amp? If you have you can try playing a CD in that and see what the sound is like - see if it's different in any way.

We do, somewhere. But I think its a naff one.

I don't really know much about the logitech speakers you have but I imagine the new gear should sound a lot better than they did.

Logitech S200. The improvement I'm experiencing should be monumental!

A little tip to help sound quality - put a bit of blu tac under each corner of the speaker as it'll help isolate the speaker from the surface it's sitting on.

Thank you. This will be hard for the left hand channel as its sandwiched between the top and bottom shelves. But like I mentioned above I'll investigate various repositioning possibilities.

Cheers, shoot1st. That's been a lot of help. I'm feeling much less depressed about the whole situation now . FLAC plus warmed up amp is already an improvement.

BTW, should a CD ripped into FLAC format be as good quality as playing the original CD? I suppose it depends on the CD player and sound card. Its also been mentioned that using an MP3 player and thus bypassing the cheap sound card (which is this one btw - bought almost soley on the basis that it was the cheapest OCUK sell. It was my first dedicated sound card and when I'm getting new kit I tend to go cheap and don't spend a lot of money until I have more experience and know-how.) should improve things. MP3 players must have built in sounds cards, and some must be better than others. But I would have thought due to size constraints PC sound cards would generally be better than MP3 player sound cards. But I'll admit I know very little about this technology.

 

[Kua]

Sorry if I have not read the OP properly... You say you are using your PC as the source which has a basic creative card.... Could this be what is holding you back? Also are you listening to compressed audio tracks (mp3s etc)?

Yeah, I'm sure the sound card is a factor. But I'm a bit reluctant to buy yet more new kit. Then again, I presume these things don't age quite as badly as video cards and I could perhaps put it in my next PC (which I expect to be building - this will be my first build - in the next six months to a year).

 

[jbloggs]

I used the Cambridge Audio A5 with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers, and you will find it hard to get a better setup for the money...

I would think that the soundcard is the weak link in the chain, being that you are playing FLACs, I used this setup with a Terratec soundcard with a breakout box, but you could use a EMU 0404 or Maudio Audiophile 24/96 with it, which I'm sure you could pick up secondhand without to much trouble quite cheaply...

 

[Kua]

...with a breakout box, but you could use a EMU 0404 or Maudio Audiophile 24/96 with it, which I'm sure you could pick up secondhand without to much trouble quite cheaply...

I have no idea what these things are I'm afraid . To the google machine o/

 

[daz]

It sounds like you want a loudness button or an EQ setting akin to a "rock 'n' roll smile". In WinAmp, try the "Soft Rock" EQ setting.

 

[Kua]

It sounds like you want a loudness button or an EQ setting akin to a "rock 'n' roll smile". In WinAmp, try the "Soft Rock" EQ setting.

Hm. Is there a MediaMonkey equivalent?

 

[Alexrose1uk]

I too think the sound card is your issue, but if you use the EQ on the CA5 it'll help a little. The problem is as your sound equipment gets better, it shows up the weakness in the rest of your kit as well. Your description of the sound lacking 'sparkle' sounds like my experience before I switched from onboard sound.

If your creative card was not very expensive at the time, and is quite a few years old, that would be my prime suspect.

You might find upping the EQ on the CA5 to bass full right (6 notches?), and treble perhaps 1-2 notches right will help compensate, and again turn off any EQs on your PC, be it creative or WMP etc. I often found going all the way to the right on the bass EQ lent some suitable bottom to movies to help compensate for no sub, although I didnt tend to use the treble EQ very often, but you may find it helps, as it will return a little of the 'pop EQ' you are used to.

I listen to rock/metal etc so those are tailored slightly to my own listening tastes ofc.

Now I have a more powerful setup, I listen to most stuff straight with no EQ whatsoever.


EMU 0404 or M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 - These are old but good analogue cards Not sure if they ever had Vista drivers though.
The Xonar series would also suit you card wise nowadays, even an X-fi with a low level of crystaliser EQ applied (about 5-10%, just enough to make a difference) may suit you.

 

[lunarwolf]

This will be hard for the left hand channel as its sandwiched between the top and bottom shelves. But like I mentioned above I'll investigate various repositioning possibilities.

putting your speakers in confined spaces isn't ideal, def try moving them away from corners walls, 12" should do the trick (at least for mine it makes a big difference)

i find pc sound cards pretty poor for audio imo, i only have a x-fi supreme so maybe there are better cards out there, but still skeptical.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

There are MUCH better cards out there for sound than the X-Fi...Creative were designing a gaming/general purpose card with the X-Fi not an audio enthusiast card; the Xonar, Emu and M-Audio cards are much more designed for this/recording.

As an example check out the Xonar STX (I think it was STX) which is a built in headphone amp style card.

 

[daz]

Hm. Is there a MediaMonkey equivalent?

I don't know, but this is probably what you'd prefer the EQ to be set to. Have a play.

Basically it looks like a smile. Defeats the mids a little and boosts the treble and bass. It is very similar to the effect of a "loudness" button. If you ever listen to FM radio, this tends to be a very similar sound.

It's not a particularly "true" reproduction of the music, and it will annoy purists. But a lot of people "enjoy" the sound.

 

[Kua]

Aha. Found the equalizer in MM and on first impression I think the smiley face is attuned to my listening needs! (EDIT: But I now see Alexrose1uk suggests just (erm) twiddling the knobs on the amp. Anyway I'll have a play and see what works.)

I have a lot of work to do to get my speakers sounding like I hoped they would out the box, but I'm more than willing to do it and its all an interesting learning experience . I'm pretty overwhelmed by the quality and depth of help I've received so quickly. Thank you!

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Aha. Found the equalizer in MM and on first impression I think the smiley face is attuned to my listening needs! (EDIT: But I now see Alexrose1uk suggests just (erm) twiddling the knobs on the amp. Anyway I'll have a play and see what works.)

I have a lot of work to do to get my speakers sounding like I hoped they would out the box, but I'm more than willing to do it and its all an interesting learning experience . I'm pretty overwhelmed by the quality and depth of help I've received so quickly. Thank you!

Hahah, yes I'd suggest turning the EQ in software back off and 'twiddling your knobs' on the amp, as that way you can will EQ the sound to your tastes for everything, not just music; so games and films on your PC will also benefit
Those settings I suggested used to work fine for me when I had a Cambridge Audio paired with my Mission 751, but obviously pair them to your own tastes, you may find simply bumping the bass suits your taste and speakers for example.

I'd also prefer my audio equipment to tweak my audio than software, as the effect is a little more natural sounding IMO but that could just be me!


PS. Gradually you'll probably find it easier to turn the EQs off altogether as you slowly get accustomed to the new sound

 

[Ste]

I only have a small desk and the speakers are positioned at just below ear level either side of the desk. One in a bookshelf, the other on my bed side table.

This is the main problem - imo you need to sort this before looking at new sources.

I'd get a pair of cheap stands (or even wall brackets if you can't fit stands in) and, depending on budget, either upgrade the source to an M-audio soundcard (decent onboard DACs), or a dedicated DAC (£100 up).

The speaker cable and interconnect are also worth looking at, but in terms of sorting the sound out you've got to look at the speaker positioning first.

 

[james.miller]

I don't know, but this is probably what you'd prefer the EQ to be set to. Have a play.

Basically it looks like a smile. Defeats the mids a little and boosts the treble and bass. It is very similar to the effect of a "loudness" button. If you ever listen to FM radio, this tends to be a very similar sound.

It's not a particularly "true" reproduction of the music, and it will annoy purists. But a lot of people "enjoy" the sound.

you must drop the the preamp level if you are going to do that, by the same amount that the biggest gain is applied. ie, if one of the sliders is +10, drop the preamp to -10. otherwise you risk overdriving the signal into distortion before it even reaches the amplifier.

 

[Ste]

I wouldn't mess with EQ to compensate for crap speaker positioning either. The fact that the tweeters are below ear level definately isn't going to help. Get some stands