you still like obama?

He's great.

Educated, articulate, eloquent, engaging, personable - he's a breath of fresh air in politics. My only gripe is that he's not over here in UK Government instead.

I can see why a certain section of the public (i.e. feckless cretins) would be intimidated by him though.
 
Pakistan has been one of the muslim nations actually willing to help us out and have been peacefull. Although India and Pakistan may not exactly get on both are great allies to the British as far as i was aware and so for American troops to just be chasing Al Qaeda all over the place just for one man, going into countries without even asking even though they would probably be prepared if we held talks with them is just idiotic. As if you just drop bombs on the north part of an allies country. What on earth are they doing.
 
"Webster Griffin Tarpley is an author, journalist, lecturer, and critic of US foreign and domestic policy. Tarpley maintains that the September 11 attacks were engineered by a rogue network of the military industrial complex and intelligence agencies. His writings and speeches describe a model of false flag terror operations by a rogue network in the military/intelligence sector working with moles in the private sector and in corporate media, and locates such contemporary false flag operations in a historical context stretching back in the English speaking world to at least the "gunpowder plot" in England in 1605."

This is in the description of the Youtube video. Therefore I closed it immediately.
 
Evangelion said:
*******

This is what Obama's campaign website said:


Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
​

Source.

That was his plan as announced in September 2007. Nothing there about taking all troops out of the country immediately.
Click to expand...

from the page you linked to yourself

Barack Obama's Plan

Judgment You Can Trust

As a candidate for the United States Senate in 2002, Obama put his political career on the line to oppose going to war in Iraq, and warned of “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” Obama has been a consistent, principled and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq.

* In 2003 and 2004, he spoke out against the war on the campaign trail;
* In 2005, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops;
* In 2006, he called for a timetable to remove our troops, a political solution within Iraq, and aggressive diplomacy with all of Iraq’s neighbors;
* In January 2007, he introduced legislation in the Senate to remove all of our combat troops from Iraq by March 2008.
* In September 2007, he laid out a detailed plan for how he will end the war as president.

yes, in January he was calling for and trying to get legislation passed to remove troops by 9 months before he was in office. his promise UP UNTILL HE WAS NOMINATED AS THE DEMOCRATIC candidate was to pull out of Iraq immediately, off the bat in that campaign it was the major difference between him and Hillary and McCain who both said a staged withdrawal over time that would take a couple years, Obama opposed that for months in every single speach talking about withdrawing instantly, the second he was voted as the candidate over Hillary that dissappeared completely. he went from instant to over 2 years, since being in office he has agreed on the plan Hilary and McCain campaigned on and since then he's asked for an increase in funds for the war.

He also never mentions anything about his very strong views of ISrael and his support in his capaign but in private dinners for , for want of a better term for them, the jews of america yearly lunch, he speaks a very different story. For his campaigns he runs his anti war, pull out instantly spiel which everyone fell for hook line and sinker, and out of the limelight he's classifying Iran as a terrorist country, their army as the single biggest threat in the world, talking about Iran wanting to wipe out Israel and giving his full support to Israel in non public speaches.

I think he's somewhat right, in that I agree about Iran, I agree about Iraq, but he flat out lied to get into office, and the person people think Obama is and talk about loving and being a breathe of fresh air is simply not real.

Oh, he also protested heavily the "surge" plan for Iraq, which he has since said was a great idea and worked perfectly on the cheap and was one of the best things Bush came up with in his time in office, in hindsight he says the plan is brilliant, yet he still uses the idea that he protested it as a good thing. Going on about how he was the only one not wanting to do it because he's anti war, while simultaneously not having a better plan and agreeing it worked great. He's a tool.
 
That video hasn't changed my mind about Obama anyway, it doesn't really make any odds since his main objection in that one seems to be that he will put troops into Pakistan which seems to have been something he said in his campaign - so he's damned if he does keep his campaign promises and damned if he doesn't.
 
drunkenmaster said:
from the page you linked to yourself

Barack Obama's Plan

Judgment You Can Trust

As a candidate for the United States Senate in 2002, Obama put his political career on the line to oppose going to war in Iraq, and warned of “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” Obama has been a consistent, principled and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq.

* In 2003 and 2004, he spoke out against the war on the campaign trail;
* In 2005, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops;
* In 2006, he called for a timetable to remove our troops, a political solution within Iraq, and aggressive diplomacy with all of Iraq’s neighbors;
* In January 2007, he introduced legislation in the Senate to remove all of our combat troops from Iraq by March 2008.
* In September 2007, he laid out a detailed plan for how he will end the war as president.

yes, in January he was calling for and trying to get legislation passed to remove troops by 9 months before he was in office.
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So what you've done here is to prove that I was right. Thanks for that.

his promise UP UNTILL HE WAS NOMINATED AS THE DEMOCRATIC candidate was to pull out of Iraq immediately, off the bat in that campaign it was the major difference between him and Hillary and McCain who both said a staged withdrawal over time that would take a couple years
Click to expand...

Was that a promise, and can you provide a source for it? A link from Obama's own website, perhaps?

For his campaigns he runs his anti war, pull out instantly spiel which everyone fell for hook line and sinker
Click to expand...

Er, no. He opposed the war and said that America should be out of Iraq, but when he began running for President he campaigned on the promise of a phased withdrawal. This is clear from the material that you and I have both copy/pasted from his website.
 
dannyjo22 said:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/ ;)

25 promises kept so far and 5 broken.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/

you may want to read some of these, some are the basic executive orders that are overturned the day of a new president coming into office, this happens with every new president. Some of the rest are all things McCain had also promised and everyone would have done, simple things that change much of nothing.

He's also pledge an increase in loans and funds at a time when loans and funds are killing the economy, one of his plans a 10billion emergency fund to help people with their homes, was clearly shortsighted as he released it as a 75billion plan instead, which they can't afford either but shows he had no clue how bad it was going to get, while most other people did seem to know, especially by august/september when the recession was clearly happening.

He's increased the funding for the national arts fundation, well surely thats important as everyone is losing jobs and deep into a recession with more jobs lost, more money for crappy arts projects, genius.

His war promise, to give them a simple order, to end the war. Despite the plan he promised having changed and EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE ALSO promising the same, and the fact Bush , and anyone else with half a brain were all saying a 2 year tactical withdrawal again I don't see this as a promise forfilled.

THeres the brilliant $7k tax credit for those that buy electric cars, which simply switches the gas used to gas burnt in a power station providing the electricity, woo.

Or theres the funding alternative fuels, which his precampaign promise was something along the lines of having America depend far less on oil, by like 2030 or something, woo.

He's done nothing to actually help or improve the country and keeps flushing money down the toilet the same way Brown is.
 
lozzick said:
Pakistan has been one of the muslim nations actually willing to help us out and have been peacefull. .
Click to expand...


In public maybe but behind the scenes the Pakistani ISI (intelligence service) are providing the Taliban not only with arms and training but finances as well, and Pakistan has now given the Taliban control of the swat valley which they can use as a staging post for attacks on our troops in Afghanistan
 
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