£2000 car scrappage scheme

my emissions on my 740 estate have been super low! If i can dig out the emissions test from last year, I'll post them up, even the mot tester commented how low they were, so all this crap that older cars throw out more emissions, is useless.

Both my 740's have been more reliable than any of my friends other cars. Ive even lent them to my friends in time of need. All my estate has ever needed In my ownership apart from brakes and tyres, is an alternator brush pack (£20) and a top rad hose (£10). Not bad.
 
atpbx said:
It is a stupid idea, people who run 9 year old cars do so for a reason, they are either collectible cars and therefore a hobby and not something that will be looking to be traded, or the person in question cannot afford a newer car in the first place, and the £2000 trade in might as well be 2p as it makes no difference to the afford ability of the new cars in question to these people.
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Im sorry, but thats just not true.

What about sensible people running older cars because they are cheaper to run? Just because you CAN afford a brand new car, doesnt mean people will be stupid enough to buy one.
 
would it be wrong of me to wait and see if (year old) Z4's drop in price when the new shape one comes outs. Then I could scrap my 1988golf for 2k and buy a much newer z4 than I could afford normally. I appreciate it would depreciate in value before I would sell it, but if I am keeping it for 4-5years I would expect every car to lose value.
 
Peter Diffey said:
Im sorry, but thats just not true.

What about sensible people running older cars because they are cheaper to run? Just because you CAN afford a brand new car, doesnt mean people will be stupid enough to buy one.
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Why have you (and so many others in this thread) got it into your head that these people can't continue using their old car, just because it is old? There is nothing forcing them to trade in and upgrade.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Why have you (and so many others in this thread) got it into your head that these people can't continue using their old car, just because it is old? There is nothing forcing them to trade in and upgrade.
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I have not suggested this at all. If you can get 2K off a nearly new car, then this is a good deal that Im sure people would take advantage of.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Why have you (and so many others in this thread) got it into your head that these people can't continue using their old car, just because it is old? There is nothing forcing them to trade in and upgrade.
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As I said in my post... after 8 or 9 years you (can) start to see an increase in general bills (mot starts to come with some work etc) and the car is getting a bit tatty...

This obviously isn't going to be for everyone, but for folks like my parents this is excellent (timing!). They would be buying a new (second hand) car regardless - just means they can buy something a bit newer.

They are going to have to give some money to the car makers regardless I guess - so might as well go to them via the people!
 
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Here is another take on the scheme you may find interesting:

CynicusEconomicus said:
..no commentary that I have seen does deal with the underlying problem with this idea. This is the problem of what the the plan is doing in principle.

In particular, the principle is the wilful destruction of wealth in order to generate economic activity.

..

As if the wanton encouragement of destruction were not absurd enough, this process is being undertaken with borrowed money. The government is therefore proposing borrowing money in order to destroy wealth. What that means is that, at some point in the future, £ 'x' million will no longer be available to, for example, build a hospital or pay for a school teacher. Alternatively, more taxes will need to be raised to repay the borrowing, meaning that you will have £ 'x' less to buy yourself a new car. It is perhaps in this latter example that we can best see the absurdity of the situation. Your future ability to purchase a new car will be diminished because the government is borrowing money to destroy the wealth that is inherently retained in another person's car.
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Read on here:
http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/2009/04/wealth-destruction-and-government.html

While I'm unsure where wealth destruction vs new car subsidy balance lies with this scheme I certainly agree with the last paragraph I quoted.

We'll all be paying for it one way or another a few years down the line.
 
There are many arguements and I doubt many here (including me) do not have the access to, or understanding of, the wider picture.

My arguement to the example above would be if the car industry collapses in this country thousands (possibly 100k+) of people, directly and indirectly, will be made unemployed. To make matters worse, many of these people will have skills which are specialised to the car industry so not transferable. These people would therefore need to sign on for longer costing the goverment / economy £x amount.

Which one costs the most in the long run is anyones guess, but since other countries are doing it, I assume (and hope) someone has worked all that out :p
 
Peter Diffey said:
Im sorry, but thats just not true.

What about sensible people running older cars because they are cheaper to run? Just because you CAN afford a brand new car, doesnt mean people will be stupid enough to buy one.
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Right, so why would cars being £2000 cheaper change their stance?

Next question.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
WTF? I was replying to someone else who was saying something WAS going to change their position. Read all of the post before replying.
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No you were not, thats my post you've quoted and it isnt what you've said at all.

Try posting something that makes sense and you wont get people misinterpreting what you mean.

;)
 
atpbx said:
No you were not, thats my post you've quoted and it isnt what you've said at all.
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Oh I see, I thought you were talking about my latest post - not the one from earlier. My point still stands - so what if people keep old cars as collectables etc? Why does the £2000 tradein offer have anything to do with them? What is your point?
 
James_N said:
my emissions on my 740 estate have been super low! If i can dig out the emissions test from last year, I'll post them up, even the mot tester commented how low they were, so all this crap that older cars throw out more emissions, is useless.
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Doubt a pre cat old volvo with 170k on the clock will be getting close to a new car, sure he didn't mean for the age of car, remember emissions pass levels are different etc, post the scan if you like will be interesting to see how good they are.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Oh I see, I thought you were talking about my latest post - not the one from earlier. My point still stands - so what if people keep old cars as collectables etc? Why does the £2000 tradein offer have anything to do with them? What is your point?
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Because, (and I'll keep it simple)

A- If you have an old car, and cant afford to run anything better, £2000 off a new car doesnt improve your financial ability to buy that car.

B- If you have and run say, a mint 205 GTI, or a 5GT, then offering a £2k discount on a new ecobox isnt going to stop you running your 5gt or 205, you run them for a reason, I know of at least 3 people in this situation. one runs 2 205 GTI's despite earning 30k a year, because he loves them.

C- If you run your car until it dies, then 2k off a a new car isnt going to directly effect the lifespan of your car, Alistair Darling isnt going to come and pour sand in your oil filler cap to get you to trade up quicker.

So who, exactly, is this scheme going to help? I've spoken to traders today and the second hand market is going through the roof because people cant afford new cars, the sub £3k market is on fire.
So it might shift the odd old fiesta of some middle class housewives drive.

Big deal.
 
Goksly said:
My arguement to the example above would be if the car industry collapses in this country thousands (possibly 100k+) of people, directly and indirectly, will be made unemployed.
..
Which one costs the most in the long run is anyones guess, but since other countries are doing it, I assume (and hope) someone has worked all that out :p
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I certainly appreciate the point you raise.

I suspect those in power have not worked it all out and are taking reactionary measures to preserve the staus quo or keep people happy.

If the car industry in this country is going to collapse (even further) it will collapse regardless of how much money is pumped in.

The tricky part is knowing where that money would be better spent. I have no faith in governments getting that question correct.

Like you say in the long term would a shorter sharper shock or protracted readjustment be better in the long term? I suspect the former would be economically better but the latter socially.
 
atpbx said:
So who, exactly, is this scheme going to help? I've spoken to traders today and the second hand market is going through the roof because people cant afford new cars, the sub £3k market is on fire.
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They won't, but some people will - the kind of people who are looking to buy a car next year (like me) once the have more money in the bank. Now they'll need that bit less money.

People like me, trading up from their crappy-small-car-to-drive-for-their-first-year may now be able to afford a nearly new car rather than an older one.
 
It will work because people will go:

- "Wow look they will give me 2k for my old pos"

- "Wow look i can get 0% for 4 years i now only have to take out a 8k loan with the dealer rather than a 9.5k loan"

- "WOW"

The scheme seems to work in other countrys so it should help the people who are on the edge of buying a new / pre-reg car but needed that final push to do so.
 
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