Osteopaths - Who's used these miracle workers?

GP's are as bad as any of them - they are there to fob you off with some random prescription and if you persist to refer you to somebody who just might have a clue what the problem is.

And a 6 figure salary for that, makes homeopaths seem positively honest.
 
Telescopi said:
GP's are as bad as any of them - they are there to fob you off with some random prescription and if you persist to refer you to somebody who just might have a clue what the problem is.

And a 6 figure salary for that, makes homeopaths seem positively honest.
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Thats a bit of a sweeping generalisation. You do get some crap ones but you do get very good ones too as with all jobs.
 
Telescopi said:
I wasn't talking about the crap ones, they kill people, the good ones are merely pointless.
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LOL The man has a point, though. Doctors kill more people directly due to their own negligence each year than terrorism has since the beginning of recorded time. Quite an eye opener. Something like 1 in 6 people in hospital at any time are there solely because a doctor made them ill.
 
Telescopi said:
GP's are as bad as any of them - they are there to fob you off with some random prescription and if you persist to refer you to somebody who just might have a clue what the problem is.

And a 6 figure salary for that, makes homeopaths seem positively honest.
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Nice generalisation.
 
Even if all they do is like you say and triage people then they are not pointless but just perhaps overpaid.
 
Rainmaker said:
LOL The man has a point, though. Doctors kill more people directly due to their own negligence each year than terrorism has since the beginning of recorded time. Quite an eye opener. Something like 1 in 6 people in hospital at any time are there solely because a doctor made them ill.
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source please? and I don't accept The Daily Mail as reliable.
 
delbuenno said:
source please? and I don't accept The Daily Mail as reliable.
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That makes two of us lol I can't remember where my memory banks lodged those snippets from, they just always stuck in my mind. So no, don't accept it as gospel I was merely 'chewing the fat' as it were. It wasn't intended as evidence. :D

I'm pretty sure it's widely accepted that the annual doctor induced deaths runs into the 100,000s though. Wrong drugs, inappropriate prescription, negligent treatment etc etc. Not really hard to believe even taking a few seconds to think about it. My great grandfather was killed by a hospital doctor. He went in with a chest infection and they 'accidentally' gave him an experimental heart tablet to see what would happen. He died the next day.

That's before we even think about hospital induced resistant infections.
 
delbuenno said:
Even if all they do is like you say and triage people then they are not pointless but just perhaps overpaid.
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Triage is necessary evil due to the logistics of putting the right patient in front of the right professional at the right time.

But GP's aren't really very good at it, they're good at getting rid of people so we can perpetuate the illusion of free healthcare for all.

Most of the time this is the right thing (whinging time wasters), some of the time it results in a lifetime of unnecessary discomfort, and sadly sometimes it results in an unnecessary death.

I've seen all three types of patient / victim and while I'm happy to say I've not been inside a doctors surgery since the last time my mother (whinging time waster) dragged me in with a sniffle - if I was ill I'd go private, sad for those who can't afford proper care but isn't that how it's always been?
 
Withdraw all forms of modern medicine from society and see how long we last on a diet of homeopathy, chiropractors and osteopaths.
 
Evangelion said:
Withdraw all forms of modern medicine from society and see how long we last on a diet of homeopathy, chiropractors and osteopaths.
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Nobody has suggested we do that. However, it does bring to mind the fact that human beings have lived perfectly well for a very long time indeed before the advent of 'modern' medicine. Let's not become bogged down in arguments of life span (we'd spend years discussing the effects of sanitation, diet and population density), but one does have to acknowledge that with an appropriate diet and exercise (almost totally lacking in the West today) humans live to a ripe old age perfectly well without 'modern' medicine.

Look at the Okinawans. You're not old til you're 110 over there, and 'modern' medicine really is a very new introduction over there. Just some food for thought. :)
 
In reply to Telescopi
yes, but when you go private you will more than likely see the same consultant that you would on the NHS anyway. So I interpret your post more as the doctors are not necessarily in themselves bad/pointless but the system in which they work in is. if that is what you meant then I agree 100%. The system itself (NHS) and its poor management,funding and ridiculous government targets are what I feel are the problem. I mean how can you seriously expect a GP who you may never have seen before, to review old notes, assess, diagnose and treat everyone they see in a 5 min session?
 
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Rainmaker said:
Nobody has suggested we do that. However, it does bring to mind the fact that human beings have lived perfectly well for a very long time indeed before the advent of 'modern' medicine.
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Well, not really. Human beings lived extremely badly for a very long time indeed before the advent of modern medicine. Our average lifespan has virtually doubled; infant mortality has been reduced by a staggering amount; we are now safe from minor diseases which would have killed us off in the 19th Century... hell, I could write entire paragraphs on this.

Let's not become bogged down in arguments of life span (we'd spend years discussing the effects of sanitation, diet and population density), but one does have to acknowledge that with an appropriate diet and exercise (almost totally lacking in the West today) humans live to a ripe old age perfectly well without 'modern' medicine.
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Do you think so? Modern medicine isn't just about treatment; it's about everyday living; procedures, precautions and hygiene standards, etc. It's about simple things like washing your hands and isolating disease victims. It's about prevention as well as cure.

Look at the Okinawans. You're not old til you're 110 over there, and 'modern' medicine really is a very new introduction over there. Just some food for thought. :)
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Is it really "a very new introduction over there"? What do you mean by that?

They certainly enjoy a longer average lifespan, which is itself a consequence of healthy living, diet & exercise etc. But without the basic hygiene practices of modern medicine, it wouldn't be quite that simple.
 
delbuenno said:
In reply to Telescopi
yes, but when you go private you will more than likely see the same consultant that you would on the NHS anyway. So I interpret your post more as the doctors are not necessarily in themselves bad/pointless but the system in which they work in is. if that is what you meant then I agree 100%. The system itself (NHS) and its poor management,funding and ridiculous government targets are what I feel are the problem. I mean how can you seriously expect a GP who you may never have seen before, to review old notes, assess, diagnose and treat everyone they see in a 5 min session?
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As you say, a GP can't possibly do a good job because they don't have the time or expertise to identify everything. So they make mistakes, fob people off who may need urgent care, and hand hold time wasters.

Most of the people who end up in a GPs surgery should just go the chemist for some lemsip and go to bed. The rest should go to a hospital and be seen by an expert.

GPs are under too much pressure though, and know the hospitals can't take any more, so they engage active denial of service mode and give everybody painkillers and say there's nothing that can be done.

The system would be better if politicians accepted people are lazy, selfish good for nothings and realised money is the only thing that motivates us.

You want to see a doctor? Pay a reasonable (subsidised) amount, you pay and you get a proper consultation with tests and referrals.

You don't feel it's bad enough to waste your own money on? Then go the the chemist and get some pills.

The only downside with this is the very poor lose out badly - but at least it would be fairer to the majority.
 
I go to a Chiropractor once every 4 weeks & have done so for the last 6 years. I've gone from being hardly able to walk 1st thing in the morning (before treatment started) to hardly any back pain at all. I saw an x-ray & basically L5 has prolapsed (& worn out) L4 & L3 was not much good either but treatable.

& this was against the advice of my GP. In his case I'd want a 2nd opinion. :mad: :rolleyes:
 
dowie said:
As far as I was aware they are basically quacks.

A bit better that Chiropractors and a lot better than acupuncturists, homeopaths, psycic surgeons, faith healers, magic crystal healers etc... and whatever other types of quacks you get these days. But still osteopaths are essentially quacks none the less.
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Very true, it's a disgrace the nhs uses these people despite having no medical evidence to support their claims, such a waste of money.

Telescopi said:
GP's are as bad as any of them - they are there to fob you off with some random prescription and if you persist to refer you to somebody who just might have a clue what the problem is.

And a 6 figure salary for that, makes homeopaths seem positively honest.
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I know what you mean, last weeks visit to the gp went something like this,

me: "can you refer me to a gastroenterologist?"
doctor: "we don't normally do that at this stage"
me: "can you refer me to an ent?"
doctor: "we don't normally do that at this stage"
me: "can you refer me to a psychiatrist?"
doctor: "go see the university counsellor"
doctor: "here I'll prescribe you this"

:rolleyes:
 
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When I had a bad back I used a local masseuse who is the daughter of a friend of the family. I had to have several long, drawn out sessions with the stunning 20 year-old blond rubbing my back but felt significantly better afterward. The wife was starting to get a little miffed that I was 'accidentally' picking up things that were waaaay to heavy etc tho...:(
 
Grimley said:
I saw an x-ray & basically L5 has prolapsed (& worn out) L4 & L3 was not much good either but treatable.

& this was against the advice of my GP. In his case I'd want a 2nd opinion. :mad: :rolleyes:
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You DO want a second opinion if thats what your chiropracter told you because that is utter BS! You cannot see/detect disc prolapses on X-RAY. You would need an MRI or CT scan. All an X-RAY will show in terma of discs is degeneration (which is completely normal and begins in your 20's) and you can only gauge that by looking at the degree of narrowing between the vertebral bodies. Next time you see him question him about it as I would be VERY interested to know how he made that deduction.
 
Energize said:
Very true, it's a disgrace the nhs uses these people despite having no medical evidence to support their claims, such a waste of money.
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That's rubbish; there is plenty of Osteopathic and Chiropractic support in the medical community. The degree's these individuals go through are all science based and the training is rigorous. Even if you said was not true, if it helps the individual it is never a "waste of money".
 
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