Death knell for hunting ban as police abandon monitoring operations

[8balled]

Can i just say that reffering to anyone/everyone who disagrees with hunting as a townie isn't really on, that sort of stuff cuts both ways and does no one any favours.

I live about 200 metres from a forested area and many fields, i'm not in the middle of nowhere, there are riding schools, stables, farmers and also industry, its a strange mix between "townie" life and country life, go one way you're surrounded by farmers go the other and you'll find pizza hut and yates, i grew up here i'm no stranger to foxes i've seen them creeping around at night, they aren't scared.

I know they kill animals and farmers want to protect whats theirs, but the thought of a pack of dogs savaging an animal as an end to a means just doesn't sit right with me if some use was to become of it (food or fur) i would still think it was cruel but at least something more than a dead animal came of it.

The one thing that gets me the most, is all the pro hunters say they're hunting as a form of pest control, yet when questioned about it, they say they enjoy the chase and yet they use everything in their power to diminish it. Then they say it brings the community together and creates business and to be honest i'd say this is more of a factor than pest control.

To throw some wood on the fire

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/nov/20/hunting.scotland

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Hunts-claim-fox-deaths-soar.2384494.jp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...banned-years-ago-sport-MORE-popular-ever.html

Apparently, shooting kills more foxes than hunting, despite my dubious sources.

 

[RDM]

Remember that if any of your ancestors had refused to hunt you wouldn't exist!

Not really relevant to the debate at hand but you are wrong. It was because our ancestors turned their backs on hunting that we are here. It was the switch from hunter gathering to farming that allowed civilisation and the population increases that came via that.

 

[arknor]

Yes foxes are so cute, and they dont harm small animal's.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2078419.stm
http://news.scotsman.com/foxes/Fox-attacks-baby-in-house.2340001.jp
Foxes like all predators will attack anything they think they can get away with.

as do many other things im sure theres been hunts where the dogs have done something they shouldnt, i seem to recall some woman who was walking her dog when the hunting dogs attacked it beeing in the news a few years ago?

 

[hargi]

If foxes are a problem why not shoot it and kill it? job done. I dont see teh need for all the dogs and horses to chase it till it collapses then gets torn to bits. ( dont say it doesnt happen as i have see it)

As for our ancestors hunted well yes they did the also **** in the woods to.

When a lamb is taken to slaughter do you chase it till it collapses then put it in the truck. NO.

So while the extermination of foxes for pest control is a ligitamate argument the way its done in hunts is not

 

[Dolph]

All these people saying 'just shoot it', how much experience of firearms and marksmanship do you have? A clean gunshot kill is nice and easy, but a vast number of animals shot do not die instantly, they either slowly bleed to death or die of blood poisiong (as referenced in the report by Lord Burns at the time) and that is far worse for the animal than hunting. The counter to this is to use Lamping (hunt at night, shine a bright light at the prey so it freezes and then shoot), but Lamping has a significantly increased risk to the people involved (compared to daylight hunting), and requires vehicle access to be able to do successfully. (making it worthless in some areas).

This is without the issue that fox hunting tends to kill the weaker foxes, whereas shooting is more indiscriminate.

 

[Moley]

So while the extermination of foxes for pest control is a ligitamate argument the way its done in hunts is not

On the flip side of that point (which is totally valid of course) is the fact that just because you think the method used is not legitimate, doesn't mean that hunting should be stopped. The huntsmen will have a differing point of view to yours and neither one is more valid than the other - they are just opinions. The difference however is that they are the ones for whom hunting is a favoured pasttime, and you (I am assuming) don't live in the countryside and don't partake in hunting or pest control. For you its just an intellectual exercise in thinking about what is morally right or wrong, for them its a part of their way of life - and this is the case with the majority of the public out there who get on their high horse (no pun intended) about Fox hunting. It's something they've heard about or seen on TV and have decided they don't like and want to do something about even though it has no bearing on their daily life whatsoever.

For that reason alone I would value the Huntsmens point of view over the townies anyday and my single biggest problem with this whole issue isn't the hunting itself or the hunt saboteuring - my problem is the way it was forced through parliament by the very MPs that we today believe are a bunch of no-good shysters who have been taking us for a ride for the past decade....


NOTE: My use of the word "you" throughout this post does not entail a personal attack on Hargi, rather it is a lazy way of answering this post as if it had been posted by any one of the anti-hunt opinion group.

 

[deuse]

I would love to know how many of these hunts people really live there were they hunt?
Last time I went to a anti-hunt the Guy in red was from london and only came back at odd weekends and such.
I know the one women was because she came out with
" Daddy's just got me a porsche "

 

[matt_fsr]

I know the one women was because she came out with
" Daddy's just got me a porsche "

Ha ha, typical

I think 'oop North' (i.e. round here) theres a lot of hunts whose members are local, typically landowners and what people would consider to be higher echelons of society, obviously the higher up ones get the red jackets too.

Not seen many hunts further south though, can imagine theres more than a few londoners involved - would be a tad tricky running a full hunt through Docklands and the City.

(Although if they chased bankers, could we get that on pay-per-view? I'd watch it!)

 

[Moley]

I would love to know how many of these hunts people really live there were they hunt?
Last time I went to a anti-hunt the Guy in red was from london and only came back at odd weekends and such.
I know the one women was because she came out with
" Daddy's just got me a porsche "

Well one think to bear in mind is a lot of the hunting set are landowners who will have more than one home, also I believe that huntsmen also attend each others hunts - often in more than one county - so you might get some people attending who aren't local as such but still count as country land owners....

But yes, you will get city-dwelling posh types joining in because it's also a social event for that social circle.

 

[arknor]

your trying to tell me those redknecks in america can kill hundreds of rabbits a nite with a truck + lights + guns yet over here people wouldnt even be able to kill a fox?

 

[Snaggle]

I dont know where you get if a fox is shot it limps off and bleeds somewhere . Its not a 1000lb deer its a fox lol . If yer using a proper caliber gun you will stop it dead .

All the foxes i have killed over the years i have never had a runner . Infact had more rabbits do a runner .

a lot of forces say .22 rimmy is fine for fox (i disagree) . I think .17hmr at a min and preferably a .223 .
I personly use a .243 or .22-250 but will take a fox with my hmr if its close enough (60 yards ish) if i dont have a centre fire with me .

Persil