The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

[mattheman]

If a scientist says "there is no scientific basis for the belief..." as part of a retraction then you championing his previously expressed (and possibly misinterpreted) statement is not exactly being honest about the support for your contention.

So the link shows that white women on average earn less than black women (and as one of the comments below the story points out there are more black women in London where wages tend to be commensurately higher to offset the living costs), is there any reason that I should care about this?

show those facts?

 

[dangerstat]

It's actually quite an interesting question, as to if genetically certain races of individuals are on average less intelligent that others. And to be fair it does actually make sense to suggest there would be an inherent difference.

It's nothing to do with racism, or lack of respect for others, it's a straight question of do we really know if there is a IQ difference between the races. For a start basic statical methods will show you there is a significant advantage in being black for sprinting - so why would we assume there is no equal bias in intelligence?

To be honest it's an area worthy of significant research, but there'll be no one (or no one trust worthy) willing to study this in any detail as they'll be labeled racist (as is evident by some of the posts here).

In my own view (and I'm in no way racist) there probably is a mean level difference in intelligence. Probably caused by the environments the different races faces millions of years ago. It seems to me that for African environments, strength is was an important factor for survival for hunting purposes where as in the north west areas, hunters needed to be smarter to survive. Following Darwin you'd tend to suggest that by survival of the fittest, you'd get stronger but no smarter humans in Africa vs smarter but no stronger humans in the north west.

There's no reason to think that intelligence wasn't affected in the past just like skin colour, physique etc.

Shame this can't be debated without racist accusations being thrown about left right and center

 

[mattheman]

I only hope you are troll otherwise you are both sad and ill informed.
Try looking up what scientific method means, before you start quoting garbage about scientific "facts"

To take you Columbus analogy - he had an idea and proved it with experiment by sailing across the Atlantic. He then had evidence.

others before him said the same , and were torn down by the masses.

 

[SiD the Turtle]

Always do i need to provide an example, when they say it all the time. plus its a scientific fact that they are less intelligent that whites, and whites are less inteligent than asians. Each race has their dominance.

Oh dear lord where to begin with that.

 

[mattheman]

It's actually quite an interesting question, as to if genetically certain races of individuals are on average less intelligent that others. And to be fair it does actually make sense to suggest there would be an inherent difference.

It's nothing to do with racism, or lack of respect for others, it's a straight question of do we really know if there is a IQ difference between the races. For a start basic statical methods will show you there is a significant advantage in being black for sprinting - so why would we assume there is no equal bias in intelligence?

To be honest it's an area worthy of significant research, but there'll be no one (or no one trust worthy) willing to study this in any detail as they'll be labeled racist (as is evident by some of the posts here).

In my own view (and I'm in no way racist) there probably is a mean level difference in intelligence. Probably caused by the environments the different races faces millions of years ago. It seems to me that for African environments, strength is was an important factor for survival for hunting purposes where as in the north west areas, hunters needed to be smarter to survive. Following Darwin you'd tend to suggest that by survival of the fittest, you'd get stronger but no smarter humans in Africa vs smarter but no stronger humans in the north west.

There's no reason to think that intelligence wasn't affected in the past just like skin colour, physique etc.

Shame this can't be debated without racist accusations being thrown about left right and center

Well said, people are scared about each race having their dominance in different areas.

 

[mattheman]

Oh dear lord where to begin with that.

prove too me they arnt? all you need is to look at the animal kingdom, so why not humans.

 

[SiD the Turtle]

...

Good point, but I'd argue that unlike the billions of years of evolution that have already passed, modern day man is more shaped by human-made environmental factors and in fact while no doubt evolution continues to play a part the human race is no longer governed by survival of the fittest. Seriously disabled people survive into old age, long enough to pass on their genes, a million years ago with my asthma no doubt I would have gotten puffed out and eaten by a lion!

I'd say that modern differences in intelligence are more down to social factors such as poverty, which is why if you did a general school performance test in this country you'd find that black people come off worse due to the fact that they are more likely to live in poverty.


Anyway, we're taking this faaar off topic!

 

[mattheman]

Good point, but I'd argue that unlike the billions of years of evolution that have already passed, modern day man is more shaped by human-made environmental factors and in fact while no doubt evolution continues to play a part the human race is no longer governed by survival of the fittest. Seriously disabled people survive into old age, long enough to pass on their genes, a million years ago with my asthma no doubt I would have gotten puffed out and eaten by a lion!

I'd say that modern differences in intelligence are more down to social factors such as poverty, which is why if you did a general school performance test in this country you'd find that black people come off worse due to the fact that they are more likely to live in poverty.


Anyway, we're taking this faaar off topic!

well if you say "disabled people survive into old age, long enough to pass on their genes" wouldnt those genes have died 1000s of years ago so the gene couldnt affect us now?

poverty should make you want more, should make you push yourself, poverty isnt the problem, its tribal issues that are. In this day and age libraries are open to all, A level exams are are the same for rich or poor, there is a lot of access if you want it.

 

[dangerstat]

Good point, but I'd argue that unlike the billions of years of evolution that have already passed, modern day man is more shaped by human-made environmental factors and in fact while no doubt evolution continues to play a part the human race is no longer governed by survival of the fittest. Seriously disabled people survive into old age, long enough to pass on their genes, a million years ago with my asthma no doubt I would have gotten puffed out and eaten by a lion!

I'd say that modern differences in intelligence are more down to social factors such as poverty, which is why if you did a general school performance test in this country you'd find that black people come off worse due to the fact that they are more likely to live in poverty.


Anyway, we're taking this faaar off topic!

Well lets take it off topic - I think it's worth discussing, and perhaps sensible debate in a BNP thread might be a first. Your absolutely right in many ways, to survival of the fittest is completely different, in many ways it's survival of richest or the best looking because that's the primary component in how we select mates now. I completely agree that social factors have a significant effect on the relative professional success (the most used indicator of intelligence) of individuals. However (and feel free to try this out yourself) by conditioning on things like income level of parents, and local poverty levels there still is a significant difference in performance levels of black vs white individuals (in the UK and the US). Now some say this is a cultural issue (rap music etc have all been blamed over the years) some argue it's a genetic thing like I did a bit above. The truth is we have no idea what is causing the gap, hence why we need to look into it. The problem with your response (as fair as it is) is that millions of years of evolution can not be expected to be corrected in hundreds of years, the scales just don't equate. The problem IMO is that we want to answer these questions - but no one out there in academia with a decent reputation is willing to study them in depth - just imagine trying to get funding for it Personally I find it strange that we'll all to willing to accept there black people have above mean level sprinting performance over white people, but when it comes to intelligence we all shut up about discussing it?

 

[semi-pro waster]

show those facts?

Show what facts? I gave you the link to a follow up article on Dr Watson's retraction, I'm now unsure what facts you expect me to demonstrate.

 

[Mr Jones]

poverty should make you want more, should make you push yourself, poverty isnt the problem, its tribal issues that are. In this day and age libraries are open to all, A level exams are are the same for rich or poor, there is a lot of access if you want it.

A poor family doesn't have the time to go to these amities. They'll either be too busy having to work (be it in a shop or help out in the family chores when parents are busy outside earning the keep)

Poverty plays a very large part to the nurture of natural genes.

 

[mattheman]

Show what facts? I gave you the link to a follow up article on Dr Watson's retraction, I'm now unsure what facts you expect me to demonstrate.

So the link shows that white women on average earn less than black women (and as one of the comments below the story points out there are more black women in London where wages tend to be commensurately higher to offset the living costs), is there any reason that I should care about this?

 

[Chronictank]

when it comes to intelligence we all shut up about discussing it?

Because its entirely pointless in real life , when you go into the kind of level where it actually matters they arent judged by their race they are judged by academic achievement and testing

If you wanted a guestimate for the UK using empirical evidence you simply look at pass rates for exams such as SATS and 11+ when the level of social pollution in the results are relatively low

Edit: but then people while whine parents of certain backgrounds push their kids more blah blah blah

 

[dirtydog]

A poor family doesn't have the time to go to these amities. They'll either be too busy having to work (be it in a shop or help out in the family chores when parents are busy outside earning the keep)

Poverty plays a very large part to the nurture of natural genes.

Excuses excuses excuses. None of which wash.

 

[mattheman]

A poor family doesn't have the time to go to these amities. They'll either be too busy having to work (be it in a shop or help out in the family chores when parents are busy outside earning the keep)

Poverty plays a very large part to the nurture of natural genes.

ok you say the kids help, but look at london look at the amount of kids that help their parents most dont, infact the ones that do help out, tend to be the ones that get good grades.

Then look at how many rich kids fail at school, lots do, the yhave the opportunity for the best school etc.. yet they still fail.
Its not were you go, its how you push yourself as an individual.

 

[etom]

the anti-bnp people often as ignorant and annoying as the BNP themselves really. So what if BNP get a euro mp or even a couple of seats at general election

they do have some valid points which could do with being raised and while i absoloutely disagree with their economic policies and some of their statements such as "bharry getting the vc because hes black" its a free world ;-] and they can belive what they want really. Hating the bnp doesn't make you a better person

 

[Chronictank]

the anti-bnp people often as ignorant and annoying as the BNP themselves really. So what if BNP get a euro mp or even a couple of seats at general election

they do have some valid points which could do with being raised and while i absoloutely disagree with their economic policies and some of their statements such as "bharry getting the vc because hes black" its a free world ;-] and they can belive what they want really. Hating the bnp doesn't make you a better person

I think it falls under inciting hatred, so they should in reality be thrown in prison for saying things like that (same way all those muslim clerics and neo-nazi's have been arrested/deported)

What would be interesting would be to see what happens if those crazy clerics started a political party, would people still feel they should be allowed to express themselves
Fortunately they don't have enough support (something a few members on this forum don't want you to believe) to start anything of the sort

 

[mattheman]

ive voted BNP and will continue to do so,

EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!

We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe.

We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world.


PENSIONERS - pensioners before asylum seekers!

The conditions in which many of Britain’s old people are forced to live are a national disgrace. We are pledged to ensure that all our old folk are able to live in comfortable homes, and will restore the earnings link with pensions. Elderly people who have paid a lifetime of taxes and reared families should not have to sell their homes to pay for care.

Power should be devolved to the lowest level possible so that local communities can make decisions which affect them. We will remove legal curbs on freedom of speech imposed by successive Governments over the last 40 years. We will implement a Bill of Rights guaranteeing fundamental freedoms to the British people. We will ensure that ordinary British people have real democratic power over their own lives and that Government, local and national, is truly accountable to the people who elect it.

FOREIGN AID - time to spend our money on our own people!

We reject the idea that Britain must forever be obliged to subsidise the incompetence and corruption of Third World states by supplying them with financial aid. We will link foreign aid with our voluntary resettlement policy, whereby those nations taking significant numbers of people back to their homelands will need cash to help absorb those returning. The billions of pounds saved every year by this policy will also be reallocated to vital services in Britain.

TRANSPORT - time to invest!

Increased investment is needed in Britain’s public transport system to bring it up to the highest standards in the world. The fiasco of rail privatisation with different companies running services and track leading to higher fares and lower safety also needs to be resolved. Congestion of our towns and cities must be eased by the provision of greater incentives to use rail and bus transport instead of private cars. The first step is to end the crime and squalor that puts so many people off public transport. Motorists must not be made the scapegoats for government failure. Fuel tax should be cut, motorway speed limits raised, and hidden speed cameras should be banned. Far more must be done to encourage the development and use of cleaner fuels.


http://bnp.org.uk/pdf_files/minimanifesto2007.pdf
etc.. have a read

 

[Chronictank]

1) They have no real plan for education, just say what they dont like rather than provide real solutions
2) They already do, your pension comes from a different fund to asylum seekers who have their own budget


@mathe
rather than answer the points above i suggest you do some research yourself (you won't as you very obviously are desperate to beleive it) because most of that is simply drivvel with no substance dressed up to look pretty and semi-credible

The BNP in a nutshell really

 

[semi-pro waster]

Show what facts? I gave you the link to a follow up article on Dr Watson's retraction, I'm now unsure what facts you expect me to demonstrate.

So the link shows that white women on average earn less than black women (and as one of the comments below the story points out there are more black women in London where wages tend to be commensurately higher to offset the living costs), is there any reason that I should care about this?

You want me to show you the fact of how little I care? Well that's hard but ok, I care about as much as there is distance between these two ellipses .. I'd pick a smaller measure but none are handy.

Or are you really asking whether there are more black women in London than in most other cities in the UK? Because if so then take a look here and download the top document labelled "29/04/2009 - Correction: Current Estimates - Population Estimates by Ethnic Group Mid-2007 (experimental)", have a look through there and note that there are proportionally more black people in London than in any other region, unfortunately it does not also split down into gender but we can make a reasonable assumption that it is not purely black men in London, there will be women too.