Russian Dog Experiment (Video is fake)

vincent1989 said:
oh, by they way, some of the experiments conducted in concentration camps under the nazi regime (iirc those specifically involving high altitude and whether to slowly or quickly warm someone who's been in freezing conditions) have contributed to science and the saving of lives across the world. were the concentration camps a necessary evil?
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I don't know about the specifics of this, but that is totally different. Scientists use animals to experiment on, so that they can save human lives. If you test on humans, you're just eliminating the point of doing the experiments because you'll be sacraficing a human.....to potentially save another?

I'm willing to bet that those experiments could have been done on animals, but since we can't change history, at least those people didn't die for nothing. At least something "good" came out of their misery. With their sacrafice and the data collected during those awful experiments, it no doubt has led to many many more lives saved.
 
Robert1986 said:
Its a necessary evil. How do you think we came about todays modern medicine and life saving surgeries. They all had to be experimented on something or somebody.
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There is no such thing as "Necessary Evil", that's just saying "The ends justify the means" which is Bull.

If you want to experiment then so be it, but mutilating animals and keeping them alive in such a way isn't just evil, it's barbaric. Nothing is worth that.
 
Also, Vincent, i trust if someone you care about ever needs major surgery, like a heart bypass/transplant/whatever, you'll be trying to talk them out of it because it will have been those "sick" scientists who "dreamed" up the experiments and procedures that save your friend/family member....

EDIT: and it isn't even just surgeries that rely on animal testing. Pretty much every illness we have cured/trying to cure will have strong links to animal testing.
 
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Fenris said:
If you want to experiment then so be it, but mutilating animals and keeping them alive in such a way isn't just evil, it's barbaric. Nothing is worth that.
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Is that what you will tell the doctors when you refuse treatment for some life threatening disease , illness, etc you may contract? :)
 
JBuk said:
Is that what you will tell the doctors when you refuse treatment for some life threatening disease , illness, etc you may contract? :)
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I'm not some animal rights activist who doesn't even think mice should be put in mazes, I just don't agree with this kind of inhuman experimentation.

They cut a dogs head off and kept it alive ffs.
 
Fenris said:
If you want to experiment then so be it, but mutilating animals and keeping them alive in such a way isn't just evil, it's barbaric. Nothing is worth that.
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The dog they cut the head off didn't feel any pain. It was probably selected from a bunch of dogs that had to be put down anyway.
 
Robert1986 said:
The dog they cut the head off didn't feel any pain. It was probably selected from a bunch of dogs that had to be put down anyway.
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I don't care if it was kept on solid gold table and shown reruns of Cheers all day.

I don't care about the reason, the conditions or the gains, it is the act itself that I am condemning.
 
Fenris said:
I'm not some animal rights activist who doesn't even think mice should be put in mazes, I just don't agree with this kind of inhuman experimentation.

They cut a dogs head off and kept it alive ffs.
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My comment was a bit tongue in cheek but you see my point, over the years there will have been many gross experiments involving animals and the resulting data gathered from some of those experiments would have helped our surgeons to better understand how to transplant organs, arms and now faces.
I'm sure there would have been other things learned from animal testing that helps the human race in some way.

No it's not nice but it's understandable.
 
JBuk said:
My comment was a bit tongue in cheek but you see my point, over the years there will have been many gross experiments involving animals and the resulting data gathered from some of those experiments would have helped our surgeons to better understand how to transplant organs, arms and even faces now.
I'm sure there would have been other things learned from animal testing that helps the human race in some way.

No it's not nice but it's understandable.
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I completely understand your argument, and agree that yes we can gain incredible knowledge and abilities to further human science and medicine from things like this, but I just cannot agree with this kind of extreme, even for the benifit of humanity.
 
Gaygle said:
Also, Vincent, i trust if someone you care about ever needs major surgery, like a heart bypass/transplant/whatever, you'll be trying to talk them out of it because it will have been those "sick" scientists who "dreamed" up the experiments and procedures that save your friend/family member....
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no, of course not, everyone has the right to do what they like as long as it doesn't directly impact on me. i'd also do everything to prevent my own death provided i had something to live for.

that doesn't mean i think animal testing is a marvelous idea, it's still barbaric and no amount of justification makes it right and there's no such thing as a 'necessary evil' no amount of evil should be thought of as good.
 
vincent1989 said:
no, of course not, everyone has the right to do what they like as long as it doesn't directly impact on me. i'd also do everything to prevent my own death provided i had something to live for.

that doesn't mean i think animal testing is a marvelous idea, it's still barbaric and no amount of justification makes it right and there's no such thing as a 'necessary evil' no amount of evil should be thought of as good.
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You describe it as evil though, surely there would have to be malice in the scientists actions for it to be considered evil?
 
vincent1989 said:
no, of course not, everyone has the right to do what they like as long as it doesn't directly impact on me. i'd also do everything to prevent my own death provided i had something to live for.
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Sorry, that was like a politician's answer. Are you saying you'll happily use the services provided by these "evil" scientists, but then question the manner in which they provide them to you?

vincent1989 said:
that doesn't mean i think animal testing is a marvelous idea, it's still barbaric and no amount of justification makes it right and there's no such thing as a 'necessary evil' no amount of evil should be thought of as good.
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No one is saying animal testing is amazing. It's horrible, but it's less horrible than having one of my friends/family die.

And you say "there is no justification" but you have just justified a reason why you'd use a medicine/procedure derived from animal testing - to save your life because you have something to live for!
 
Just to clairfy after my little rants, I do believe in animal testing and think it is a perfectly fine way of going about expanding our knowledge.

This I feel is just a step too far.
 
Gaygle said:
Sorry, that was like a politician's answer. Are you saying you'll happily use the services provided by these "evil" scientists, but then question the manner in which they provide them to you?
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in one word? yes.

Gaygle said:
And you say "there is no justification" but you have just justified a reason why you'd use a medicine/procedure derived from animal testing - to save your life because you have something to live for!
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i believe i said 'no amount of justification', not that there is no justification.


and again, just for clarification, robert1986 was first to bring this up as an 'evil'
 
Fenris said:
This I feel is just a step too far.
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But if you don't know what they have got out of this experiment, how can you say it is too far? What happens if in this experiment they discovered a robust cure for Parkinsons disease or Alzheimers disease? Would it still be too far?
 
Greenlizard0 said:
/thread.

Yes, it is horrible, and it is cruel on the animals. However in some situations it's still necessary for the greater good of being able to treat/cure humans. Not ideal, but something I quite easily live with to be honest.
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its the eternal question of, would you kill one innocent person to save millions ?

granted your going to have to do something evil to help stop each individual evil such as cancer etc but if it does it and works and theirs no other way...sure sadly
 
Gaygle said:
But if you don't know what they have got out of this experiment, how can you say it is too far? What happens if in this experiment they discovered a robust cure for Parkinsons disease or Alzheimers disease? Would it still be too far?
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Yes, for me it would still be too far and I hope I am never the one to have to make that decision, I guess we should be thankful it is unlikley it ever will be.
 
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