Homeopathy

vonhelmet said:
Homeopathy is utter garbage. It has no scientific basis and is entirely faith based.

I can't moan too much, as I'm a Christian with faith in God, but I'm inclined to think that God gave me the capacity to discern good science from bad.
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Tbh, I don't think God's a fan of homeopathy either.
 
[DOD]Asprilla;14213547 said:
Some of the recommended doses for these preparations are such that you would need a sphere of water big enough to fill the void between the earth and the sun (I'm not making this up btw) in order to get one molecule of the active ingredient
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This doesn't make any sense. I'm sure you're not making it up, but think about what you're saying: There's tiny fractions of a molecule in each dose? Assuming we're not talking about polymers (which I doubt homeopathy would use) how do you go about having fractions of molecules without turning them into other, smaller molecules of a different substance?

I don't mind homeopathy because I don't mind placebos - as long as you get better you get the end result you wanted :rolleyes: Never had the opportunity or requirement to try it myself though.
 
RoysonBobson said:
This doesn't make any sense. I'm sure you're not making it up, but think about what you're saying: There's tiny fractions of a molecule in each dose? Assuming we're not talking about polymers (which I doubt homeopathy would use) how do you go about having fractions of molecules without turning them into other, smaller molecules of a different substance?

I don't mind homeopathy because I don't mind placebos - as long as you get better you get the end result you wanted :rolleyes: Never had the opportunity or requirement to try it myself though.
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It makes perfect sense. He isn't saying there are fractions of a molecule in each dose, simply that statistically there aren't any molecules of the active ingredient in each dose. In other words, if homeopathic medicine contains 0.5 molecules per dose, there would be 1 molecule every 2 doses, on average. In reality, the more 'potent' homepathic medicine contains a few molecules per cubic light year :D
 
RoysonBobson said:
This doesn't make any sense. I'm sure you're not making it up, but think about what you're saying: There's tiny fractions of a molecule in each dose? Assuming we're not talking about polymers (which I doubt homeopathy would use) how do you go about having fractions of molecules without turning them into other, smaller molecules of a different substance?
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I don't think that's what he's saying - I think the point he is making is that the dilution process for the "strongest" remedies (200C) are diluted to such a point that the chance of there being a molecule of the original substance left
is infinitely small.

RoysonBobson said:
I don't mind homeopathy because I don't mind placebos - as long as you get better you get the end result you wanted :rolleyes: Never had the opportunity or requirement to try it myself though.
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It's all well and good when people are using them along with conventional medicine - the problem is when people start to refuse conventional medicine, or when homeopaths promote themselves as an alternative to conventional medicine to an extent that it is detrimental to the persons health.

Take Neal's Yard selling homeopathic malaria treatments for example - the society of homeopaths did nothing to speak out against this, see here:

And what happens when you try and debate homeopathy? Like a lot of these quacks, they like to send in the lawyers and avoid any serious debate:
http://www.dcscience.net/?p=171
 
people should be allowed to use homeopathy though, then the idiots who believe it will die out and be removed from the gene pool - darwinism at its best.
 
Volcs said:
Everyone should be issued with a mandatory copy of Bad Science by Ben Goldacre.
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+1

Also Suckers by Rose Shapiro.

Considering that the placebo response can relieve some symptoms in up to 32% of sufferers, it's not surprising that many people still believe homeopathy to be effective. Throw in the occasional relapse, and all of a sudden sugar water is a miracle cure! :rolleyes:
 
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Well, it's been a week.

I liked the placebo effect on the first day or two. Actually seemed to help.
Now, just as bad as ever.
I'm tempted to overdose and take 72 of the tablets that contain nothing but sucrose.

I'm also going to write a strongly worded letter, which has been sneezed on, asking for my £5 back.

And thankfully, the boat arrives with shop goods, including regular piriton!
 
tres said:
Got a bit of the old hayfever today.. .Boat didn't sail, therefore shop has run out of a lot of things.

Only hayfever stuff is some Homeopathy - does the stuff work? I read it stimulates the body's natural healing process.

Sounds all new-age to me. Any good?
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It's good for you if you're making money from selling it. Otherwise, no. Of course, there can be a placebo effect if you think it works. So this thread will stop it working for you. Sorry about that :)
 
Knubje said:
lmao I need to show someone this thread...he'd find it intersting/funny!


For the OP; I know people who get hayfever and I sometimes used to get it when it was really bad out there. Standard drugs like Puriton and other such anti-hystamine (sp?) usually work/help!
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I find it better to look for generic drugs with the same dosage of the same active ingredient. There aren't many antihistamines sold over the counter as allergy treatments. For example, Clarityn costs ~£3 for 7 tablets. Each tablet contains 10mg of Loratadine and some inert filler. Wilko non-drowsy allergy relief tablets cost £1 for 7 tablets. Each tablet contains 10mg of Loratadine and some inert filler. Why pay 3 times as much for the same dose of the same drug?
 
Stretch said:
My mother sent me and my brother to homeopath until became too expensive, probably about 10-15 years. Until a few years after stopping my brother had never had an antibiotic in his life, and my mother and I had only taken them prior to seeing the homeopath. I can’t be sure if it works, but I wouldn't be so dismissive. It certainly worked for us during the period we used it, and I think it has more merit that a lot of other alternative medicine.

I had a chat with the homeopath whilst I was at one of the appointments, and he explained a bit about how it "works". It's not so different to modern medicine. Basically they give you a very low dose of something that produces the same symptoms as the ailment you are trying to treat. This has the effect of aiding the body to negate the effects of the ailment. Not too dissimilar to vaccination, but has a much broader scope.
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Can you come up with any reason at all to believe that increasing your exposure to whatever you're allergic to by a miniscule amount will stop you being allergic to it? If you think that's true, why not just do it? If you're allergic to a particular plant pollen, have a friend wave some of the plant while standing a hundred feet away from you.

Homeopathy is not similar to vaccination. It's more like faith healing than it's like vaccination. Although faith healers rarely make false claims that what they're doing is scientific.
 
mp260767 said:
but your quite willing to trust your health to a doctor, on the off chance you don't suffer the side effects of whatever they may give you, and hope what they actually give you sorts the problem out ?
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Doctors don't spend 7 years playing World of Warcraft and then in complete ignorance randomly prescribe drugs that companies just put on sale without any testing.

I am willing to trust my health to a highly trained specialist using their expertise and appropriate equipment to make a diagnosis and suggest an effective treatment. I am also willing to trust years of studies culminating in further studies on numerous people, studies that are double-blind placebo trials, in order to determine the effectiveness and risk of a drug.

I don't expect it to be a magic potion of extra healing (although sometimes it's pretty much as effective as one), but I do expect it to have a very high probability of working without serious side effects and I have good reason to do so.
 
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Art said:
You only need one T-cell activated by one virus particle to start off the adaptive immune system, and pretty much the same for the innate. The reason a lot of viral infections stick around is because they either infect somewhere the immune system won't touch for fear of causing too much damage (like nerves) or they actively suppress the immune system. It's not really about not having enough of the virus particles.
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And even if it was, it would still be completely irrelevant to homeopathy because:

i) Homeopathy is not about adding extra bacteria or viruses.
ii) Homoepathy doesn't add any significant quantity of anything significant.

Claiming that homeopathy triggers the immune system is claiming that no matter how much of something you have in your body causing you a problem, adding one molecule of something that might or might not be similar will make your immune system deal with the problem. Which is possibly the most ludicrous drivel I've heard this week (and I've been reading the BNP thread).

EDIT: No, it's more ludicrous than that because there probably won't even be one molecule of it. Homeopathy overloaded my bovine faeces meter, so I was inadvertently being over-generous to it.
 
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Angilion said:
Can you come up with any reason at all to believe that increasing your exposure to whatever you're allergic to by a miniscule amount will stop you being allergic to it? If you think that's true, why not just do it? If you're allergic to a particular plant pollen, have a friend wave some of the plant while standing a hundred feet away from you.

Homeopathy is not similar to vaccination. It's more like faith healing than it's like vaccination. Although faith healers rarely make false claims that what they're doing is scientific.
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It's not even a miniscule amount - it's diluted until there are no molecules of the allergen left; the effect is supposed to be from the 'memory' of the the water molecules in response to being around a miniscule amount of allergen.
 
Monkey Puzzle said:
It's not even a miniscule amount - it's diluted until there are no molecules of the allergen left; the effect is supposed to be from the 'memory' of the the water molecules in response to being around a miniscule amount of allergen.
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My mistake. I mistakenly believed that such an obvious degree of ridiculousness couldn't possibly fool many people, so I didn't consider the possibility of many people believing that water cures disease, but only if it's sold to them by someone calling themself a homeopath.

Magic water curing diseases.

If I tell people I'm a level 9 cleric in Dungeons and Dragons, do you think they'll buy my magic healing potions?
 
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