Unfortunately, the "low level pathogen" suggestion doesn't fly either. The OP was complaining of hayfever. As far as I remember that's caused by a certain type of antibody (IgE) binding the pollen and causing some cells of your immune system to activate and release inflammatory mediators and histamines (that's what hayfever treatments contain anti-histamines). If you just introduce more of the pollen then you'll get more of a reaction. If you give them something that is different but gives the same symptoms it'll....give the same symptoms. Assuming it hasn't been diluted out.
Homeopathy
- Thread starter tres
- Start date
Unfortunately, the "low level pathogen" suggestion doesn't fly either. The OP was complaining of hayfever. As far as I remember that's caused by a certain type of antibody (IgE) binding the pollen and causing some cells of your immune system to activate and release inflammatory mediators and histamines (that's what hayfever treatments contain anti-histamines). If you just introduce more of the pollen then you'll get more of a reaction. If you give them something that is different but gives the same symptoms it'll....give the same symptoms. Assuming it hasn't been diluted out.
![[DOD]Asprilla](/styles/overclockers/avatars/8.png){kind=avatar}
Soldato
- Joined
- 10 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 14,033
- Location
- Surrey, by the river
That doesn't overcome the fact that the recommended dose levels mean it's unlikely that any active ingrdient will be present. We also have the question of what represents a similar action to what youare trying to cure. Given the lack of medical training and study the best you can be talking about is at an observed symptomatic level.
The simple fact is that under controlled studies homeopathy does not work, there's no point discussing proposed mechanisms when the efficacy of the whole thing is unproven.
This is completely untrue. There is not a single homeopathic treatment with scientific backing.
This is nonsense.
Firstly, your idea about how the immune system works is completely untrue.
Secondly, homeopathic remedies don't contain anything. They're dilluted so much that there's a single molecule of what they purportedly contain in there - if there's not enough in your body for it to react to there sure as heck isn't enough in the overpriced water the homeopath is selling you.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 3,011
This is true as well, i didnt say this would work for hayfever, becuase seen as the symptoms are created by the body practically "over reacting" to the pollen the introduction of even more pathogens wouldnt help. This sort of treatment isn't a "cure all" solution, but it has a place for treating small conditions such as viral infections, stress related issues and skin problems
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 3,011
i honestly dont see why
please explain then, in all honesty im by no means a biologist but i was under the impression the whole reason a body reacts to an illness and creates antibodies is due to a significant level of viruses etc that are presentYou only need one T-cell activated by one virus particle to start off the adaptive immune system, and pretty much the same for the innate. The reason a lot of viral infections stick around is because they either infect somewhere the immune system won't touch for fear of causing too much damage (like nerves) or they actively suppress the immune system. It's not really about not having enough of the virus particles.
I don't have any scientific backing for it working, but do have some personal experience.
When I was a kid, I used to get mouth ulcers very very frequently and they would stay for weeks. My grandfather then recommended some homepathic medicines for me (after reading up etc a lot on the topic. I was small, so i just remember him having books about it in his hands) and I started taking them. Started off with the effect of them disappearing within a week rather than multiple weeks and after a while, they just stopped coming.
So in my opinion, they did work, at least for that. Never tried it for other things because convential medicine did the job in those cases (but not in this) so I can't say about them, but it was effective in this regard.
When I was a kid, I used to get mouth ulcers very very frequently and they would stay for weeks. My grandfather then recommended some homepathic medicines for me (after reading up etc a lot on the topic. I was small, so i just remember him having books about it in his hands) and I started taking them. Started off with the effect of them disappearing within a week rather than multiple weeks and after a while, they just stopped coming.
So in my opinion, they did work, at least for that. Never tried it for other things because convential medicine did the job in those cases (but not in this) so I can't say about them, but it was effective in this regard.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 3,011
ok then, i stand corrected
with regards to the scientific studies i have to admit although there are many flying references and numbers i've had trouble finding the actual papers, heres something though:
http://www.lifeforce.in/app/casestudies_warts.asp
http://www.geocities.com/indianhomeopath/cases.html
i'm under prescription myself though and receive the tablets tomorrow, so they better work
THE PROOF IS THERE, ON THE GEOCITIES WEBSITE
Soldato
- Joined
- 10 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 14,033
- Location
- Surrey, by the river
I was hoping for something more than single case observational studies; these are what started off the MMR scare. How about something published in a medical journal, including methodology.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Apr 2004
- Posts
- 4,790
- Location
- London
I think I mention that book every 5th post
Homeopathy for hayfever. LOL.
Using homeopathic theory, tapwater should be the most potent thing to man (remember, these buffoons actually think that diluting something makes it MORE potent).
It's all bobbins. Seriously, there's nothing out there. After 200 years, homeopathy has never cured anything and has only worked as a placebo. If it did work, it would be part of mainstream medicine, and "big pharma" would have be making 10s of millions a year out of homeopathy, rather than Biorin.
For anyone interested in conspiracy theories who might buy into this homeopathy stuff - look into Biorin. Then tell me that it's "Big Pharma" who are trying to con us.
It's the kind of thing my mum believes in. She's currently doing a course of 'magnetic' therapy to help her arthritis, as well as seeing a 'healer' (i.e. charlatan). She swears it makes a difference after every visit, oh well :/ Never underestimate the power of the imagination.
Corrected the spelling, but you're right, they make €313 million a year selling products based on quack medicine. Their profit margins must be incredible being as they don't have to do all those awkward trials.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Apr 2004
- Posts
- 4,790
- Location
- London
Apologies for the spelling! I was surprised that they actually do bother going through all the vigorous rituals, they have machines that slap the test tube against a leather cushion and everything.
I wonder how many homeopaths really believe in what they are preaching...
To be honest, when your overheads consist of: Bottles, Tap Water, Sugar in pill form, etc. I don't think they are too worried about profit margins