The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.
- Thread starter Stolly
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vee70 who were you before the ban?
Lost me buddy. I'm only posting as I am on paternity leave and awaiting the midwife to perform her daily checks on my 5 day old son. I don't normally do much more than flick through the console forum once a week or so. I just fancied a chat and some of the things posted piqued my interest.
No, I fully understood your post.
I think you do not understand what immigration means. Immigration is NOT the same as ethnic cleansing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration
"Immigration is the arrival of new individuals into a habitat or population".
This has nothing to do with the control of people who already live and reside within a country. An immigration policy controls the inflow of people into a country. Again, the conservatives are not in power so cannot change current immigration policy.
The BNP wants to ethnically cleanse Britain and form some kind of white supremacist Aryan race, the dream of Hitler. Thereby, people who immigrated in the past, how ever long ago, who do not conform do the white ideal are selectively prejudiced and forcible eliminated from the country. This is not an immigration policy, even if it only concerns people who immigrated to Britain in the last 500 years.
So what is an immigrant and what is an immigrant population? A policy on immigration can certainly include future immigrants as well as current immigration populations.
If you read the remainder of the wiki article and not just the first line you'll find:
The modern concept of immigration is related to the development of nation-states and nationality law and/or citizenship law. Citizenship in a nation-state confers an inalienable right of residence in that state, but residency of non-citizens is subject to conditions set by immigration law. The emergence of modern nation-states made immigration a political issue: by imagining its populations, in violation of multi-ethnic, multi-'racial', multi-cultural realities 'on the ground', as homogenous blocks, constituting a nation defined by shared, single ethnicity, 'race' and/or culture. Legal and political restrictions on the presence of foreigners is a highly controversial political theme because such restrictions are introduced and maintained by states whose citizens have had a major, sustained and deeply consequential presence in states other than their own.
It certainly seems to deal with people who "have a presence in states other than their own"........ It also seems that non-citizens (current immigrants) are subject to immigration policy. After all not everyone who emigrates becomes a citizen and has a right to remain......
So in summary I guess you either don't understand the question or don't understand "immigration".
As far as I'm aware the BNP view anyone who came here legally; waited the 8 odd years and got their British passport as British and are only interested to deport all the people who do not hold British Citizenship (or asylum seekers who were given it).
But they undeniably want to ethnically cleanse the UK as far as legally possible which is why they are offering financial incentives to encourage people to go back to the countries that they originated from.
If there were stronger measures available to them such as forced repatriation then it is possible that they would use it. So I don't think that they only want to deport non citizens, they seem to want to deport citizens as well.
They are offering people the option of taking the money and going back ... they are not forcing anyone.
Some might chose that option
BTW, before I get flamed ... I do not support the BNP; but I do see a few decent policies amongst all the other useless stuff (for instance I agree with their get rid of all asylum seekers and illegal immigrants immediately policy - why can France not take some asylum seekers instead of sending all of them here? They got more space... But I disagree with their repatriation policy.)
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Why would they offer people of non UK origin money to leave? Would they offer a white british man money to emigrate to Spain? Why do you think that they are offering "immigrants" money to leave? Do you think that they would make them leave if they legally could?
Do you want your taxes spent on helping people leave the UK?
Do you want to have areas of city look like you are visiting Pakistan, or India (South Hall until a few years back, parts of Leeds) or Poland or China?
I would not be opposed to voluntary removal of people who refuse to integrate into the wider British society or of Chavs (even if they are British).
I'm not opposed to people voluntarily leaving the UK. However they already have that option. I certainly don't want to pay them to leave. I'd rather reduce the welfare state handouts to people who don't contribute so that they have little option but to fit in or move on.
Where would they go? Who would take them? If they didn't want to be here, wouldn't they leave without prompting?
If they are offered a sufficient bribe some might leave ... those who hold foreign citizenship to those places; the rest to say new-Australia?
You argument is a completely circular childish argument over semantics, trying to flee the real racial reality of your argument.
Cuttig the cow excrement:
1) The conservatives and no other mainstream party have a policy for the forced removal of non-whites from Britain.
2) The BNP support the removal of non-whites living in the UK.
If you want a party that will eradicate and evict non-whites then your only option is to vote for BNP.
If you are concerned over general immigration issues then there are plenty of choices. If you don't like th available choices then you can be pro-active within your local politics. Perhaps attend local Labour/Lib Dem/Torie meetings and discuss with them.
Soldato
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As an aside, in some ways it's not an entirely bad thing that the BNP are around. At least this way the racist bigoted morons make themselves known and are a more quantifiable factor in British society. Better the devil you know...
In seriousness I think that the problems with employment and the like in this country is a numbers game and something does need to be done about the immigration (I have to be careful here as I'm a Kiwi living here on a visa) and the BNP have a certain point about the current EU situation with having to allow anyone else from the EU into the country. That in itself needs to be addressed if only in a manner that stops Britian from being a target for benefit bludgers.
I work hard and both myself and my fiance had to qualify under a very stringent points system to get into the country and we have no recourse to public funds as stipulated on our Visas. I personally think that immigration within the EU should be approached in this way (or similar). People going to New Zealand have to deal with the same system as we had to - it means that we can't just turn up and expect to exist on the back of the working public and I agree that this needs to be sorted, i.e. the system needs to be fixed but it should NEVER be on the basis of racial accounting.
In seriousness I think that the problems with employment and the like in this country is a numbers game and something does need to be done about the immigration (I have to be careful here as I'm a Kiwi living here on a visa) and the BNP have a certain point about the current EU situation with having to allow anyone else from the EU into the country. That in itself needs to be addressed if only in a manner that stops Britian from being a target for benefit bludgers.
I work hard and both myself and my fiance had to qualify under a very stringent points system to get into the country and we have no recourse to public funds as stipulated on our Visas. I personally think that immigration within the EU should be approached in this way (or similar). People going to New Zealand have to deal with the same system as we had to - it means that we can't just turn up and expect to exist on the back of the working public and I agree that this needs to be sorted, i.e. the system needs to be fixed but it should NEVER be on the basis of racial accounting.
Isn't that what multiculturalism is *really* all about? Having lots of different cultures each refusing to integrate with the rest of society?
Because a vast majority of people like different cultures. Indeed, it is a major reason people go on holiday to foreign countries - to get emmersed in the cultures of other peoples. Thats why I love the work place I'm at now, 14 diverse cultures in 18/20 people.
Different languages, different cuisine, different music, arts, movies, different traditions. Its all fascinating. Besides which I love eating
Can you back up the "vast majority of people like different cultures" statement with some sort of recent study or something or is it just a personal opinion of yours?
When the majority of people go on Holiday do you think they go for the weather and the hotels or for the culture?
How do you become immersed in the different cultures at your work?
Is eating a curry your main reason for being pro multiculturalism and immigration?
How many foreign films do you watch and how much foreign music do you listen to?
If people love being immersed in other peoples cultures then why is the UK split up into areas which are all predominantly of one culture, be it Islamic, British, Afro-Carribean or whatever? Why do people coming here hold on so tight to their culture if they love being immersed in different cultures? Surely by your reasoning they come here to become British and yet clearly that is not the case.
If you wish to cut the cow excrement then why not answer the original question without trying to cloud the issue with your utterly inaccurate and indeed incorrect assertion as to what "immigration" is?
Incidentally what is "my argument"? I've merely posed a question to you which has no racial context to it. Perhaps you can tell me what my "argument" is........ As for circular.... I merely read the entire wiki article that you posted instead of the first line. If you must post links that are supposed to support your point it makes sense to read them first so as not to show yourself up
The question is simple: Which parties do you recommend people to vote for if they wish to vote for a party that has strong policies on immigration - which as your wiki article points out includes people currently living here that do not have citizenship?
You say that there are plenty of choices. So name some. Accusing me of childishness because of your flawed understanding and inability to answer the question posed smacks of childishness on your part. Indeed claiming that immigration is all about race shows a seriously childish understanding of the issues of immigration. I am sure that the good people of Birmingham would have serious misgivings if the entire population of Scotland decided to move there and flood the schools with children and compete for all the jobs. If you can't see beyond race with regards to immigration and the effects of mass immigration then perhaps you need to read some more.
You stated: The conservatives and no other mainstream party have a policy for the forced removal of non-whites from Britain.
Could you link me to this policy ........
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Precisely, for many people -and doubtless for some BNP voters it is about sheer numbers of people coming here rather than their racial origins...
For the benefit of D.P. could you confirm that you are an immigrant and that changes in immigration policy could affect you even though you already live here?
Again for the benefit of D.P. could you suggest any party that someone who has concerns over existing and future immigration could vote for in the UK party system who are promising to deal with the whole p[icture and not just future problems?
Bloody foreigners, coming here and stealing our jobs.