I thought i'd better make one of these threads...

[Tute]

Hey all.

It's probably quite obvious given my activity over the last month in here, in various threads, but i've been given the reins with some money to go and buy a nice car.

Requirements are:

- FIVE doors. This is non-negotiable, courtesy of SWMBO.
- Hatchback (around Focus sized). It needs to be able to carry 4 in comfort, but I don't want anything too massive.
- Budget is around eight to nine thousand.
- It probably will be bought from a dealership. This is something I can't change and is an order from the person providing the funds.
- It needs to be able to do all things, well. It'll be used to run the A38 a lot, anything up to 20K a year. It must be able to hold 80mph comfortably for that reason.
- Decent economy. I don't expect 50+ MPG but I don't really want to be going less than 30.
- Reliable. This is crucial. It must be a well built car, I don't want it in the garage too often.
- I'd like something with a bit of "zip". Thinking warm hatch as the hot ones are quite bad for insurance still. In the high 7s to low 9s for the 0-60.

That's about it really. Sorry there's such a big list, but i'm trying to get this spot on, hence taking my time with it.

So far i've shortlisted the following.

Ford Focus Mk.II - probably a 2.0 Petrol.
VW Golf Mk. V
Audi A3 Sportback
Seat Leon Mk I - I don't like the look of the Mk.II at all.

I was considering a Fabia vRS (as many of you well know). Well i've decided to leave that off the list as it's pretty contraversial, being a diesel. Also the one I had my eye on has sold, so it would mean hunting around a bit.

I also tried a Civic Type-S, which I really didn't like on account of the way VTEC works. So nothing with that technology please.

So er... anything i've missed? Am I on the right track? Fox/Tom|Nbk must be sick of hearing me talk about this as i've been chewing their ears off on MSN for a couple of weeks now.

 

[Peerzy]

Looking at all your requirements the first car that jumped to mind before I'd even read what you are considering was an A3, seems to tick all the boxes but may cost a bit too much?

Mk1 Leon's are getting on a bit now I think and would come in well under your budget, could be a good thing but could also be a bad thing when it comes to reliability.

Golf's are okay but overpriced for what you get, if you want that premium price and feel the A3 would be a better shout.

Focus seems to get good reviews around here, I'd personally only want a facelifted Mk2 as I thought the interior of the pre facelift was a bit crud. Should fit all the criteria if you cannot get a good A3 for your money.

I'd give my Bravo a shout, only downside is the rear legroom isn't brilliant. As long as the drive isn't my height (6ft 4') then shouldn't have too many issues but if you have to have the drives seat all the way back the leg room is a bit cramped. Would fit all the other requirements, the 1.4 Tjet engines are pretty nippy (8.2 seconds to 60 but most are a tad quicker and mines remapped to somewhere close to 7 seconds). Pretty good with fuel, I get mid 30's having a good time round town, pretty reliable - the engine is based on the old Fiat FIRE stuff so is tried and tested and hardly any relaibility issues going round on forums, no known weaknesses.

They only come in 5 doors, look pretty funky and have brilliant derv engines (the 1.9 is the same speed as my 1.4 tjet and should get 40mpg round town and about 55 on motorway trips).

Plenty at the dealers and well within budget, £9k should get you a really good specced 12-18month old example with all the extras (climate control, cruise control, mp3 radio, blue&me bluetooth handsfree etc...) and hardly any mileage. Original owner would have taken most of the hit on depreication.

Worth at least having a look at and if you're anywhere near me (Surrey - South East) I'll be happy to show you round mine.

Clicky

Cheap on insurance and that'll map to just shy of 200bhp and more than enough toque.

Edit; derv or petrol btw?

Petrol Bravo 58 plate, 10 miles, 150bhp, looks like a pre reg for £8800

 

[Fido McNasty]

Did you say non negotiable?
I wouldn't say that here

Thought about a 1 series?

 

[wez130]

A3 Sportback, but i'm biased


oh, i suppose i better tell you about running costs etc.

I have the 2.0 TFSi (as if you couldn't guess), it's quick enough but if it's not it can be remapped should you wish. I average about 35mpg on normal runs (mixed driving) and i can sit in mine for hours comfortably on the M/way.
Try not to go for the basic pov spec interior as they can look quite bland, add nav for a start and it transforms the dash and makes it much better looking. If you can stretch to it, go for leather too. If you go for a DSG box, make sure you check it works properly (shift up and down and make sure it reacts quickly, both on the paddles and the gearstick), then in auto mode cruise at 40mph in 6th then floor it and make sure it drops down to 3rd quickly, if turbo you will get a very slight lag doing this.

Things to look out for, as above, if you get the DSG, if it goes wrong, it is an expensive repair, also, coil packs can go quite easily on all VAG cars.

Overall, i wouldn't change mine in a hurry

 

[iaind]

Considered something a bit bigger?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/776430.htm

Or something a bit different..probably not practical enough but apparently these do 40mpg easily

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1065343.htm

I know those arent local but just to give you an idea of price.

Alternatively, 9k is getting dangerously close to Golf GTI territory. Cant share the link because of the silly site but theres an 05 reg on the VW site at a main dealer at 10,500...

 

[Tute]

Looking at all your requirements the first car that jumped to mind before I'd even read what you are considering was an A3, seems to tick all the boxes but may cost a bit too much?

Been to the dealers and had a look. There's a 1.8T A3 at £12-13K, but little else unless I want diesel, which we're going to assume i'm not for now.

Mk1 Leon's are getting on a bit now I think and would come in well under your budget, could be a good thing but could also be a bad thing when it comes to reliability.

Fair enough, they also don't seem to be very cheap and the Mk I versions are like gold dust.

Golf's are okay but overpriced for what you get, if you want that premium price and feel the A3 would be a better shout.

They both seem to carry a premium though?

Focus seems to get good reviews around here, I'd personally only want a facelifted Mk2 as I thought the interior of the pre facelift was a bit crud. Should fit all the criteria if you cannot get a good A3 for your money.

So I should be able to get an 08 facelift into the budget? Those were going for £11K+ on the local dealer's forecourt.

I'd give my Bravo a shout, only downside is the rear legroom isn't brilliant. As long as the drive isn't my height (6ft 4') then shouldn't have too many issues but if you have to have the drives seat all the way back the leg room is a bit cramped. Would fit all the other requirements, the 1.4 Tjet engines are pretty nippy (8.2 seconds to 60 but most are a tad quicker and mines remapped to somewhere close to 7 seconds). Pretty good with fuel, I get mid 30's having a good time round town, pretty reliable - the engine is based on the old Fiat FIRE stuff so is tried and tested and hardly any relaibility issues going round on forums, no known weaknesses.

They only come in 5 doors, look pretty funky and have brilliant derv engines (the 1.9 is the same speed as my 1.4 tjet and should get 40mpg round town and about 55 on motorway trips).

Plenty at the dealers and well within budget, £9k should get you a really good specced 12-18month old example with all the extras (climate control, cruise control, mp3 radio, blue&me bluetooth handsfree etc...) and hardly any mileage. Original owner would have taken most of the hit on depreication.

I never really thought about it as I assumed all Fiats would be too small, or too ugly (some of the larger models make me dry heave). Also is there anything questionable about reliability?

Worth at least having a look at and if you're anywhere near me (Surrey - South East) I'll be happy to show you round mine.

Sadly not, but appreciate the offer.

Edit; derv or petrol btw?

Probably petrol. I expect you saw the old thread, where I got fed up and had it locked. Well having given it some thought, i'd prefer a petrol of the two.

That's not to rule out a Derv, but at the moment i'm going to settle on something I like first.

A3 Sportback, but i'm biased

Ah yes, Tom warned me about you!

oh, i suppose i better tell you about running costs etc.

I have the 2.0 TFSi (as if you couldn't guess), it's quick enough but if it's not it can be remapped should you wish. I average about 35mpg on normal runs (mixed driving) and i can sit in mine for hours comfortably on the M/way.
Try not to go for the basic pov spec interior as they can look quite bland, add nav for a start and it transforms the dash and makes it much better looking. If you can stretch to it, go for leather too. If you go for a DSG box, make sure you check it works properly (shift up and down and make sure it reacts quickly, both on the paddles and the gearstick), then in auto mode cruise at 40mph in 6th then floor it and make sure it drops down to 3rd quickly, if turbo you will get a very slight lag doing this.

Things to look out for, as above, if you get the DSG, if it goes wrong, it is an expensive repair, also, coil packs can go quite easily on all VAG cars.

Overall, i wouldn't change mine in a hurry

Glad to hear it, I absolutely love the look of these, they're gorgeous cars. My local Audi recently moved sites, and for some reason, didn't bring much used stock with them. As I said above, there's a 1.8T on the local forecourt for about £12-13K, but little else unless I want to push my budget harder.

Considered something a bit bigger?

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/776430.htm

Been back and forth on these. Still unsure. I don't know what it is about them but they just don't appeal.

Or something a bit different..probably not practical enough but apparently these do 40mpg easily

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1065343.htm

I know those arent local but just to give you an idea of price.

Is VVTi the equivalent of VTEC? In which case, no thanks. Although I do like the look of the Celica and i'd totally forgotten about them (mainly as they're more coupe than hatchback).

Anyone here own(ed) one and can comment?

Alternatively, 9k is getting dangerously close to Golf GTI territory. Cant share the link because of the silly site but theres an 05 reg on the VW site at a main dealer at 10,500...

I know, i'm looking at it. I've looked at it in the past. It's not even *that* far. You think i'd have a good chance to get it down to around £8-9K?

[Edit] Just to add, i've run some figures and a Golf GTI is too "hot" - insurance is well over a grand and I don't have that really, hence me asking for a "warm" hatch.

I assume the case would be the same for the Cupra etc.

 

[Peerzy]

Been to the dealers and had a look. There's a 1.8T A3 at £12-13K, but little else unless I want diesel, which we're going to assume i'm not for now.

When I had a look at an A3 and had a chat with the Audi dealer he said they couldn't get hold of any of the faster petrol A3's for love-nor-money. They had hundreds of 1.9dervs and a few basic spec 1.6's but they hadn't had any 1.8t, 2.0t ot 3.2l for about 3 weeks. He searched on his system and said there were only 7 3.2l in the country available for him and also very low stock on the 2.0t. 1.8t wasn't as bad but still pretty hard to find a decent one.

Fair enough, they also don't seem to be very cheap and the Mk I versions are like gold dust.

They are nice, a friend had one but they are starting to look a bit old inside and wouldn't really be worth the money imo.

They both seem to carry a premium though?

I've never got why VW's carry the premium, in my eyes they are on the same level as a Focus in terms of reliability, build quality etc... The Audi will rightly command a premium for the badge and build quality inside. They are very well screwed together and unlike other brands you'll find the interior stays looking fresh and won't rattle after a few years. Apart from that though the A3 is basically a slightly different looking posh boys Golf.

So I should be able to get an 08 facelift into the budget? Those were going for £11K+ on the local dealer's forecourt.

I've no idea, I knew I test drove a 08 plate Focus ST3 which was up for £15k, so simply assumed a 1.6 07 plate could be had for around you're budget.

I never really thought about it as I assumed all Fiats would be too small, or too ugly (some of the larger models make me dry heave). Also is there anything questionable about reliability?

Like most people you've got the Fiat brand image stuck in you're head. They make wonderful smaller cars and shocking bigger cars. The Bravo is about as big as you want to go in a Fiat. I think it's a nice looking car but can understand people with more classical tastes (say if you prefer E36's to E92's for example etc....) won't like the smoothness and curves of the car. I think it's a stunner personally. For the sake of 20 minutes it would be worth popping down to your local Fiat dealer and just having a look at one.

You won't have any issues with reliability, they've really upper there game and havn't had any typical Fiat problems for a while now. Looking over the current range theres no build quality issues (GP the glovebox lid catch needs replacing on a few but thats it) and the engines (both petrol and derv) have been very highly praised by the media and are brilliant. Get the idea that Fiat's will fall apart out of your head, same with Alfa.

Sadly not, but appreciate the offer.

If you're heading to any of the southern meets, coming up this way or change you're mind then just let me know.

Probably petrol. I expect you saw the old thread, where I got fed up and had it locked. Well having given it some thought, i'd prefer a petrol of the two.

That's not to rule out a Derv, but at the moment i'm going to settle on something I like first.

I only thought about derv because of the mileage, how long would you like to keep the car for?

Ah yes, Tom warned me about you!



Glad to hear it, I absolutely love the look of these, they're gorgeous cars. My local Audi recently moved sites, and for some reason, didn't bring much used stock with them. As I said above, there's a 1.8T on the local forecourt for about £12-13K, but little else unless I want to push my budget harder.



Been back and forth on these. Still unsure. I don't know what it is about them but they just don't appeal.



Is VVTi the equivalent of VTEC? In which case, no thanks. Although I do like the look of the Celica and i'd totally forgotten about them (mainly as they're more coupe than hatchback).

Anyone here own(ed) one and can comment?

VVTi is variable valve timing and is basically VTEC but not on such a big scale. Same downsides though, not much torque means you always have to be in the right gear and thrash the engine to get anything out of it.

I know, i'm looking at it. I've looked at it in the past. It's not even *that* far. You think i'd have a good chance to get it down to around £8-9K?

[Edit] Just to add, i've run some figures and a Golf GTI is too "hot" - insurance is well over a grand and I don't have that really, hence me asking for a "warm" hatch.

I assume the case would be the same for the Cupra etc.

Cupra is gonne be pretty similiar to a GTi in terms of insurance, same with any other hot hatch. Personally I don't think you could knock that much off either, VW pride themselfs on having high resale values and don't knock much off cars because it will effect the value of the stock. When i got a few letters through from my local VW garage about the Golf half of the letter was simply about it being an investment, holding it's value etc....

Considering GTi's are quite popular, have a good brand image and the dealers are supposidly through the hardest financial times now I wouldn't expect to get anything more than £1k off it.

I've edited in my reply as it was a lot easier

 

[iaind]

Is VVTi the equivalent of VTEC? In which case, no thanks. Although I do like the look of the Celica and i'd totally forgotten about them (mainly as they're more coupe than hatchback).

Anyone here own(ed) one and can comment?



I know, i'm looking at it. I've looked at it in the past. It's not even *that* far. You think i'd have a good chance to get it down to around £8-9K?

[Edit] Just to add, i've run some figures and a Golf GTI is too "hot" - insurance is well over a grand and I don't have that really, hence me asking for a "warm" hatch.

I assume the case would be the same for the Cupra etc.

Yup, VVTI is the same idea anyway so gives the similar driving style. Doesnt match your 5 door requirement anyway (You've not had sprogs already have you Foss?)

Sounds like the Golf appeals so if the GTI is too hot we need something middle ground. Its a bit of an odd range in terms of engines. For n/a petrols you're stuck at the bottom end 1.6s and the like, avoid. Then there's the oil burners - the 1.9 is on the lower end cars and probably to be avoided too.

The best bets on the Golf are the 2.0 TDI ones - 140bhp for a good, competent car or 170 for a bit of a suprise! If you prefer the petrol, you've got the 1.4 TSI (the one with a turbo and supercharger), again comes in 140 or 170 versions. My boss has a 140, it shifts very well indeed and makes a hell of a noise. He averages over 40mpg too. Dont know if you'd get a 170 in budget, not sure what the difference is mechanically though...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2006-VOLKSWAG...ms=65:7|66:2|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

You say you need to go to a dealership, does this need to be a main dealer or can it be a private independent? Just that most main dealers wont stock much over 2 or 3 years old, so that really puts you into 2 year old Fiestas etc rather than 5 year old A3s...

 

[Tute]

When I had a look at an A3 and had a chat with the Audi dealer he said they couldn't get hold of any of the faster petrol A3's for love-nor-money. They had hundreds of 1.9dervs and a few basic spec 1.6's but they hadn't had any 1.8t, 2.0t ot 3.2l for about 3 weeks. He searched on his system and said there were only 7 3.2l in the country available for him and also very low stock on the 2.0t. 1.8t wasn't as bad but still pretty hard to find a decent one.

Sounds about right. I assumed it was down to the fact that our dealership is quite new from moving, but most of them are complaining of low stock, so I don't see why Audi should be any different.

Only place with good stock levels is the Ford dealer (Vospers).

They are nice, a friend had one but they are starting to look a bit old inside and wouldn't really be worth the money imo.

Yeah I get you. To fill the budget i'd have to get something faster and then insurance starts to get crazy. I'm not keen on the new shape though, might just end up scratching them off my list.

I've never got why VW's carry the premium, in my eyes they are on the same level as a Focus in terms of reliability, build quality etc... The Audi will rightly command a premium for the badge and build quality inside. They are very well screwed together and unlike other brands you'll find the interior stays looking fresh and won't rattle after a few years. Apart from that though the A3 is basically a slightly different looking posh boys Golf.

Isn't there a badge premium with Volkswagen?

I've no idea, I knew I test drove a 08 plate Focus ST3 which was up for £15k, so simply assumed a 1.6 07 plate could be had for around you're budget.

I don't want to go that small though. A 2.0 Focus is well within budget, both in terms of cost, running, and insurance. Plus it would be used a lot on the motorway/dual carriageway, so I want a good sized engine.

Like most people you've got the Fiat brand image stuck in you're head. They make wonderful smaller cars and shocking bigger cars. The Bravo is about as big as you want to go in a Fiat. I think it's a nice looking car but can understand people with more classical tastes (say if you prefer E36's to E92's for example etc....) won't like the smoothness and curves of the car. I think it's a stunner personally. For the sake of 20 minutes it would be worth popping down to your local Fiat dealer and just having a look at one.

I'm not really decided on the looks. I will go and have a look around today though, at some used ones.

You won't have any issues with reliability, they've really upper there game and havn't had any typical Fiat problems for a while now. Looking over the current range theres no build quality issues (GP the glovebox lid catch needs replacing on a few but thats it) and the engines (both petrol and derv) have been very highly praised by the media and are brilliant. Get the idea that Fiat's will fall apart out of your head, same with Alfa.

Will do, i'll have a read of some reviews today as well.

I only thought about derv because of the mileage, how long would you like to keep the car for?

A few years, five at least I think.

VVTi is variable valve timing and is basically VTEC but not on such a big scale. Same downsides though, not much torque means you always have to be in the right gear and thrash the engine to get anything out of it.

Then i'll pass thanks. I don't need this "easy town driving" and "drink lots of petrol as you thrash it" type of car.

Cupra is gonne be pretty similiar to a GTi in terms of insurance, same with any other hot hatch. Personally I don't think you could knock that much off either, VW pride themselfs on having high resale values and don't knock much off cars because it will effect the value of the stock. When i got a few letters through from my local VW garage about the Golf half of the letter was simply about it being an investment, holding it's value etc....

Considering GTi's are quite popular, have a good brand image and the dealers are supposidly through the hardest financial times now I wouldn't expect to get anything more than £1k off it.

Doesn't really matter, I absolutely can't afford the insurance on anything that fast.

Yup, VVTI is the same idea anyway so gives the similar driving style. Doesnt match your 5 door requirement anyway (You've not had sprogs already have you Foss?)

NO.

No.
No....No.... NO!

SWMBO wants it to have five doors. We've had arguments about it but she's adamant. She's promised not to veto something with a bit of "poke" as long as I stick to that one thing she wants.

As it's "technically" her car as well, I have to at least give her something.

So five doors it is.

Sounds like the Golf appeals so if the GTI is too hot we need something middle ground. Its a bit of an odd range in terms of engines. For n/a petrols you're stuck at the bottom end 1.6s and the like, avoid. Then there's the oil burners - the 1.9 is on the lower end cars and probably to be avoided too.

They're all too slow anyway - petrol wise I won't take less than a 2.0L unless it's turbo'd/super'd. Also if it's not going to be quicker than 9s to 60 I may as well take the Focus.

The best bets on the Golf are the 2.0 TDI ones - 140bhp for a good, competent car or 170 for a bit of a suprise! If you prefer the petrol, you've got the 1.4 TSI (the one with a turbo and supercharger), again comes in 140 or 170 versions. My boss has a 140, it shifts very well indeed and makes a hell of a noise. He averages over 40mpg too. Dont know if you'd get a 170 in budget, not sure what the difference is mechanically though...

If I was going to get a Derv then I might just have a hunt for another Fabia vRS. I liked the drive, liked the power, and they remap to close to 170bhp.

So that's the diesel angle covered - in terms of Focus/Golf/A3 i'm talking only petrol really.

It's going to be tough to get a 1.4TSI into my budget no? Especially if it's from a main dealer. Or do you think I could haggle that far?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2006-VOLKSWAG...ms=65:7|66:2|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

You say you need to go to a dealership, does this need to be a main dealer or can it be a private independent? Just that most main dealers wont stock much over 2 or 3 years old, so that really puts you into 2 year old Fiestas etc rather than 5 year old A3s...

Yeah i've noticed this, and it's very irritating. It needs to be a main dealer really.

 

[waso_dude]

Thought about a Mazda 3?

Uses a ford engine, Focus frame.

If you are feeling posh get the MPS - 260bhp but your mpg will be low.

Else wise, 2.0l petrol.

I have a 2.0l petrol, sports set - 17" alloys, Xeons, Aircon, 6disk in dash cd changer, Everything is top notch. 150bhp, does about 35-45mpg, Really really comfy and looks really really good.

 

[Tute]

Thought about a Mazda 3?

Uses a ford engine, Focus frame.

If you are feeling posh get the MPS - 260bhp but your mpg will be low.

Else wise, 2.0l petrol.

I have a 2.0l petrol, sports set - 17" alloys, Xeons, Aircon, 6disk in dash cd changer, Everything is top notch. 150bhp, does about 35-45mpg, Really really comfy and looks really really good.

Interesting. Seems I have quite a lot to look at today.

 

[Peerzy]

1) Isn't there a badge premium with Volkswagen?

2) I don't want to go that small though. A 2.0 Focus is well within budget, both in terms of cost, running, and insurance. Plus it would be used a lot on the motorway/dual carriageway, so I want a good sized engine.

3) They're all too slow anyway - petrol wise I won't take less than a 2.0L unless it's turbo'd/super'd. Also if it's not going to be quicker than 9s to 60 I may as well take the Focus.

1) There is a badge premium with VW, but that's it, and personally I see VW as being no better than Ford, Toyato, Renault etc.... The only other thing they have going is they hold there value, which means you pay more but get more back. However this doesn't make the car any better and the Focus is certainly a better car than the Golf and should be a fair bit cheaper.

An Audi is badge premium because the build quality is a lot better than most cars, BMW is badge premium because pretty much every engine is a stunner etc.... VW is a badge premium because of it holding value, but unlike the others this isn't to say the car is any good or better than it's cheaper rivals.

2) I would think a 2.0l Focus would still drop into your pricerange. I remember seeing a few facelifted Focus ST's coming in at about £9k now, they were justy approaching 3 years old and were about 50k examples in terms of mileage so no doubt a bit of hunting should get you a 30k 2/3 year old 2.0l petrol.

3) If it was me I'd be looking at getting a smaller turbocharged petrol engine and getting it remapped. The map on mine has given it the low down torque of almost a derv let still has all the bonus points of a petrol.

Just as an example my Group10 insurance car (£750 to insure for a 19 year old with mods declared) just the other day outsprinted a Mk5 Golf GTi and a Y plate Audi TT (no idea what engine but he was going for it on a rolling start). With a remap I can go from 10mph to about 90mph without changing gear or the engine struggling.

I'd fully expect my little 1.4t engine to hit 60mph in about 7seconds.

 

[iaind]

If I was going to get a Derv then I might just have a hunt for another Fabia vRS. I liked the drive, liked the power, and they remap to close to 170bhp.

So that's the diesel angle covered - in terms of Focus/Golf/A3 i'm talking only petrol really.

I think you'd be pretty suprised at the 2.0 TDI units, especially the 140. The majority of golfs on the used market are 2.0 TDI and there's good reason for that, they really are very good.

The 170bhp can be remapped to 207bhp and the 140 to 201bhp...

If you're looking at Fabia, you should look at the Polo too as thats the car it's based on - I think either might be a bit small for longer commutes but it might sort your main dealer problem as they're cheaper little cars.

Barnstaple VW have a couple of 2.0 TDIs and even a 2.0 petrol GT at 9~10k - I'd get yourself up there and take both for a drive

 

[iaind]

Here you go

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/used/search?vehicleId=600598028&centreId=140584&alertId=

 

[Ringiho]

I'd suggest a Leon! Obviously I am a little baised but even mine gets used as a van/people carrier. Brilliant car!

Even the diesel Cupra's are nice looking cars.

Petrol or diesel, Leon all the way! .

If not, the newer Focus' are nice cars!

 

[iaind]

1) There is a badge premium with VW, but that's it, and personally I see VW as being no better than Ford, Toyato, Renault etc.... The only other thing they have going is they hold there value, which means you pay more but get more back. However this doesn't make the car any better and the Focus is certainly a better car than the Golf and should be a fair bit cheaper.

An Audi is badge premium because the build quality is a lot better than most cars, BMW is badge premium because pretty much every engine is a stunner etc.... VW is a badge premium because of it holding value, but unlike the others this isn't to say the car is any good or better than it's cheaper rivals.

I disagree with this. I have no problem with Ford interiors (I own one!) but a Golf is in a completely different league in terms of quality to a Focus. I know their smaller cars are a bit iffy but they arent what we're talking about

A Golf will hold it's value well, which is why its going to cost slightly more in the first place. I think this is partly because a VW is going to wear a lot better than a Ford and a damn sight better than a Fiat

 

[[TW]Fox]

I think this is partly because a VW is going to wear a lot better than a Ford

No, its because the perception is that this is the case. In reality, it is not true.

 

[iaind]

No, its because the perception is that this is the case. In reality, it is not true.

In my personal experience it is true but I gues everyone's experience is different.

The Golf's interior definitely FEELS more solid and better put together

 

[[TW]Fox]

What, Mk5 versus Mk2 Focus?

 

[iaind]

Yep, I reckon so.

In terms of wear - a friend of mine (who now has a mk5) had a mk4 02 reg with 90k miles on it. He NEVER even cleaned it, let alone look after it but under the dust the interior seemed to be wearing better than my 04 Mondeo. Its not to say the Mondeo's bad, because it's not - I've just always been impressed with the way the VW (and german cars in general) wear compared to others.