Probably why I won't ride a crotch rocket

[Draeger]

28 years riding bikes...hayabusa at the moment..friends killed in the past..as has been stated there is a time and a place to hoon...i like to hoon

Similar thoughts m8. Been riding performance bikes for about 22 years now.

THIS which happened in 2006 still haunts me and what is especially difficult is the fact that I have to continue on in my day to day work knowing that I may well encounter something similar at any point.

It's certainly affected me to the point that my riding style has changed and although I'm a lot slower on the road now compared to how I used to be, I'm a damn sight safer.

A pity it took the fatality of a friend to make me change my riding style.

 

[Lakeland]

i am absolutly shocked that there is no mention of the car driver, granted it wasn't all down to them but they played a big part in that crash...

also the speeds they were doing when they crashed could be achieved on most motorbikes over 500cc

 

[Burnsy2023]

also the speeds they were doing when they crashed could be achieved on most motorbikes over 500cc

And that's a useful point because? They're still doing way over the legal limit.

 

[Chojin]

And that's a useful point because? They're still doing way over the legal limit.

Think it's a good point actually, thread title is "why I won't ride a crotch rocket" when this kind of thing isn't exclusive to sports bikes, a naked or even supermoto could be put you in the same situation.

 

[Sin_Chase]

Shame someone had to die.

I wont recover arguments already brought up in this thread but I've seen the video and the stills, and while its hard to get a REAL sense of depth you can get a decent sense of time from the video. The time it took the biker to come off and collide with the caravan was tiny,that car was never going to get out, past and back in safely and would have been overtaking while on-coming traffic was coming past.

I watched the video the first time and did not even think he was overtaking because it looked so damn dodgy.

 

[Jotun]

Well I agree with the OP in that it's one of the reasons I wouldn't ride a bike. There's a chance I'd make a mistake and injure myself, and there's a chance that other road users would make a mistake and injure me. Either way, any accident on a bike is going to be worse than in a car.

Would you guys think any differently of the situation if there was no oncoming traffic? To me it looks like the car wouldn't have made it past the car in front before meeting oncoming traffic, so the biker assumed the car wouldn't attempt an overtake. The car however did go for it regardless and the biker didn't have space to react.

I don't think the car drivers observational skills are particularly to blame - check the mirrors, indicate, drop it into 2nd, blind spot check and move over and accelerate. In the space between checking his blind spot and look forwards and checking the traffic and starting the manoeuvre the bike caught up with him. If he'd checked his blind spot again mid overtake he would have seen the bike, but then you generally don't expect someone to catch up with you so fast.

To me it looks like the driver could have done all the checks that can be reasonably expected, but the biker assumed that the driver wouldn't be attempting an overtake and went for one himself, and then both vehicles went for the same piece of road. I think the drivers poor overtaking decisions and the riders assumptions are the cause of the accident.

Regardless, it's a tragic accident and no amount of pointing fingers will change that.

 

[Scania]

Two idiots meet on the road (not including the guy with the camera) and one pays for it with his life.

 

[PyroboyUK]

Just a shame the other guy didn't get taken out as well, they were both reckless and tahnkfully didn't kill anyone driving safely

 

[jlss]

That's a good video to show to all riders, especially new ones. We don't all bike like that. So unnecessary and such a shame

Very true is a shame but that speed on that road was just stupid and asking for a accident.

It's hard enough to be seen filtering and overtaking at normal speeds let alone stupid speeds like that.

RIP though just a waste of a life.

 

[Dave M]

TBH i find any defence of the biker to be a typical biker "gung-ho approach".

I've never ridden a bike, have no intention ever of riding a bike - but it's clear from the video (to my eyes at least) that the accident was caused by the car pulling out, in so much that if he hadn't pulled out the accident could not have happened.

Obviously the speed of the bikes was crucial because a) the bike couldn't possibly stop in time and b) the car driver just wasn't expecting anyone driving so fast.

When you have a speed limit, you assume people are doing that speed. The driver of the car may well have looked back and saw the bike - assumed he was well back and had time to overtake, but didn't look long enough to see he was going so fast.

I think all involved have had plenty of punishment but the media reporting does sort of absolve the car driver of all guilt when it would be more sensible to remind drivers that a good long look in the mirror is a good idea before pulling out.

 

[Glaucus]

I've never ridden a bike, have no intention ever of riding a bike - but it's clear from the video (to my eyes at least) that the accident was caused by the car pulling out, in so much that if he hadn't pulled out the accident could not have happened.


I think all involved have had plenty of punishment but the media reporting does sort of absolve the car driver of all guilt when it would be more sensible to remind drivers that a good long look in the mirror is a good idea before pulling out.

But how long would he need to look in his mirrors for, is it reasonable and can you blame the driver for that. From that video I don't think you can. He is clearly in blind spots behind other cars and likely to have a closing speed of 60feet per second. As well as the driver starting to pull out well before the bike get's there distance wise.

 

[Scort]

I will say this though, i dont care what car you have, sports or otherwise, a motorbike will get to whatever speed a darn sight quicker and if, like in the video, a driver doesnt double check his mirrors when making a maneuver (sp?) then it is lights out for a biker

It's been said before, possibly in this thread, but bikes can also slow from said speeds at an amazing rate – seriously, I have taken my bike from some stupidly high speed, down to almost nothing in very very short distances. Sadly however, it’s still a human behind the controls and isn't it a scientific fact that reactions fade with age?

It’s still worth bearing in mind that a out of control speeding bike, whilst still capable of a lot of destruction and death, will certainly cause less havoc than a car – this video for example, the bikes didn’t pile the throttle on too much imo, so a performance car could probably have reached a ton in the same distance; imagine if that had ‘clipped’ the other car – the people in the van would be dead also.

There are always threads like this that come up every so often and i think it boils down to both bikers and drivers alike giving each other mutual respect on the road and just think twice about what maneuver they make.

Totally agree with you there.

Scort.

 

[Scort]

Would you guys think any differently of the situation if there was no oncoming traffic? To me it looks like the car wouldn't have made it past the car in front before meeting oncoming traffic, so the biker assumed the car wouldn't attempt an overtake. The car however did go for it regardless and the biker didn't have space to react.

Possibly, yes, as I think (assuming that the details haven’t been left out to aid a media witch hunt of bikers) that the car driver seems to have gotten away scott-free, when he or she blatantly attempted an unsafe overtake.

I don't think the car drivers observational skills are particularly to blame - check the mirrors, indicate, drop it into 2nd, blind spot check and move over and accelerate. In the space between checking his blind spot and look forwards and checking the traffic and starting the manoeuvre the bike caught up with him. If he'd checked his blind spot again mid overtake he would have seen the bike, but then you generally don't expect someone to catch up with you so fast.

You saw the oncoming traffic right? If you consider that it was safe to overtake, then you are likely one of the many drivers I encounter when out driving, riding or cycling, who should frankly be taken off the road, for the safety of everyone else. Impatient, aggressive and carrying a far too competitive attitude; the type who go bat **** crazy when overtaken, almost like they are defending their masculinity through their driving style - total muppets.

To me it looks like the driver could have done all the checks that can be reasonably expected, but the biker assumed that the driver wouldn't be attempting an overtake and went for one himself, and then both vehicles went for the same piece of road. I think the drivers poor overtaking decisions and the riders assumptions are the cause of the accident.

He/she may have done all the checks – but it shows that they didn’t do them well as they missed an oncoming van, a white one at that, so not exactly blending in with the greenery is it.

Personally, I think that the car contributed to the crash, but the rider certainly caused it – the conditions on that road, were totally wrong to be riding like that, and sadly he paid the ultimate price, and those around had to face the horror of witnessing the aftermath

Scort.

 

[PieEater]

I think the accident was the fault of the car driver, the fatalities were the fault of the bike riders.

No-one can condone riding at those speeds because at heart we know it's stupidly risky, though some of us still choose to do so. There are times and places when the risks are greatly reduced and times and places where they are greatly increased. Even at the best of times strapping a camera on the front of your bike right by the speedo isn't going to encourage sensible riding especially if you have a mate with you to egg you on.

Filtering past slow moving traffic is probably one of the most dangerous situations for a rider because it's when drivers get impatient and pull stupid moves without taking the time to assess the situation properly. It's a lesson I learned at 20MPH and survived with a few bruises so I didn't need this video to prove doing it at 90MPH is suicidal.

 

[Von Luck]

Car driver definitely partially to blame for that - overtaking on chevrons when there is oncoming traffic (even if there is room to squeeze through) is seriously dodgy. The bike was close when he pulled out and I can't see anyone who had actually checked their mirrors trying to overtake.

Bikes also to blame though - they should not have been speeding and should have hung back and found somewhere safer to overtake.

The consequences of those kind of mistakes is one of the reasons I gave up riding bikes.

 

[Dave M]

But how long would he need to look in his mirrors for.

Long enough to see the bike overtaking traffic, but not so long that you drive into the back of the car in front suddenly slowing down.

Nothings ever black and white but the simple fact is he pulled out into the path of a bike overtaking and the biker died. He'll have that with him for the rest of his life.

If there's anything I can do - including not bothering to overtake on a single carriageway - that stops me being in that position I'm happy to do it.

 

[Glaucus]

Long enough to see the bike overtaking traffic, but not so long that you drive into the back of the car in front suddenly slowing down.

Nothings ever black and white but the simple fact is he pulled out into the path of a bike overtaking and the biker died. He'll have that with him for the rest of his life.

yep he has to live with that for the rest of his life. But I disagree on the pulling out bit. he pulled out and a speeding bike pilled into him. I don't think it's reasonable in that situation to expect the car driver to see him due to several reasons though.

 

[Sankari]

No it's not fact. It's supposition and you know it. There is no way of categorically stating what you have said as fact.

LOL? If he'd been riding at a legal speed and maintaining an appropriate distance between himself and the driver in front, how would you estimate his chances of getting killed? "High"? "Very high"? "Inevitable"? Or "unlikely"?

He was trying to overtake an overtaking car at 100mph in the face of oncoming traffic. Recipe for disaster. He clipped the back of the car because he was moving too fast and didn't gauge his distance properly. That was his own fault; not the fault of the car driver, who had clearly indicated his intention to overtake (which the biker chose to ignore) and had no chance of dodging the biker even if he'd had time to see him.

The biker attempted an insanely dangerous manoeuvre at an illegal speed. He had it coming.

 

[Jotun]

You saw the oncoming traffic right? If you consider that it was safe to overtake, then you are likely one of the many drivers I encounter when out driving, riding or cycling, who should frankly be taken off the road, for the safety of everyone else. Impatient, aggressive and carrying a far too competitive attitude; the type who go bat **** crazy when overtaken, almost like they are defending their masculinity through their driving style - total muppets.

He/she may have done all the checks – but it shows that they didn’t do them well as they missed an oncoming van, a white one at that, so not exactly blending in with the greenery is it.

I did see the oncoming traffic and I agree it was a dangerous overtake and not something I would do. FWIW I tend to stick to the speed limit, I move over for bikers and I don't have a problem being overtaken. The driver may have seen the van and considered it fine to overtake down the middle. I wouldn't agree with that judgement, but aside from that it's entirely possible that he did everything else that could be reasonably expected and missed the biker still. Although that said, the driver did decided to overtake down the middle with oncoming traffic so it's also possible their standard of driving isn't the best and may not have done the proper checks. Although whether that would have made any difference is debatable.

 

[Flukester]

He was trying to overtake an overtaking car at 100mph in the face of oncoming traffic. Recipe for disaster.

He was not trying to do that, bike had already commited both in is head / road position / speed (too much though) to a overtake. Car in front then decided to also overtake after that thinking there was nothing coming.

The car that pulled out was tailgating car in front, and decided to pull out extremely fast for (illegal) overtake.. (there was oncoming traffic, it's not a 3 way carriage way)

Looking again if there was one thing that caused this is was that car tailgating, when tailgating you have to pull out in a fast manor then accelerate to overtake rather than a gradual move outward while accelerating.

In the back of my mind looking at the way the car tried the overtake I don't think he looked in his mirror at all, though of course he would have denied this in court..

I'd wager car driver did not even look at all..

Both at fault though, shame someone died, certainly seeing this has changed the way I overtake / fast filter a little... beware of cars squeezing though gaps that they shouldn't!